The 98th Academy Awards become an excuse to talk about what awards occasionally get right, what they miss, and the hundreds of people whose work makes movies possible. Jett and Gareth discuss the directors, actors, cinematographers, editors, craftspeople, and Best Picture nominees—with the usual understanding that art stubbornly refuses to behave like a horse race.
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Gareth (05:19.595)
Gareth Higgins, The Conversation Never Ends. I'm happy to say that I am here in an office in downtown Belfast, a church office. There's some lovely pictures on the wall of contemporary saints. I do need to acknowledge that Tic-Nac Han fell off the wall when I came into the room. And so he's on the desk beside me and I invoke the presence of Thay with us exactly right.
for the dream that is the movies because, you know this, for me, cinema is the art form most like dreaming. When we're watching movies, we're dreaming the world. And it's important to grapple with these dreams because the people who are behind these dreams, well, maybe they need some dream interpretation work. And I think we're going to talk about something just like that with our first of the 10 nominated best picture choices. And that is...
Jett Loe (06:12.102)
Yes.
Gareth (06:15.787)
Jorgos Lanthimos's Bagonia.
Jett Loe (06:19.484)
Fantastic. This is an astonishing film, folks. This is a ripe, pulpy tour de force of the rawest humanity. the problem, of course, is maybe the rawest humanity isn't great.
But I tell you, I loved, loved, this film. And you know what it made me think about Gareth watching Bagonia? And spoilers, folks, because there's gonna be spoilers, because we're talking about a lot of movies here, right? And movies are a linear medium. So you can't like go to an art gallery and see a painting and you get a sense of the whole painting at once and then you can look at the details. They're linear, they roll out. So they're gonna be spoilers if you're watching a film like Bagonia, which has some twists and turns there later on in the linear medium. But I'm wondering with Bagonia, Gareth, for me, it...
because it deals with conspiracy theories as a character played by the wonderful, what kind of American are you, Jesse Plemons, where he's sort of in the grip of a conspiracy theory. And for me, Bagoni is sort of...
reveals that conspiracy theories, even if the specifics aren't real, right? The earth isn't flat, but it sort of reveals sort of an insight into the unconscious collective consciousness, the collective unconscious, if that makes sense. It sort of taps into the realization of the reality that we're locked in some sort of horrible machine, this machine that is contradictory to a healthy, beautiful life.
Gareth (07:30.477)
you
Jett Loe (07:41.256)
know, the film reveals that we seem to be governed or ruled by psychopaths. So in that way, it's kind of a documentary. It's one of the best films of the year, I think.
Gareth (07:49.9)
And you've made this point before that to name the genre of begonia is impossible without spoiling it. a question for you is like, when does the statute of limitations on spoilers run out? Don't do it now for anybody who hasn't seen it.
Jett Loe (07:55.367)
Yes, I will do that now.
Jett Loe (08:03.143)
I'll do it now.
Jett Loe (08:06.842)
It, well, if you haven't seen it folks, go see it. It's a very difficult film. Yes, yes.
Gareth (08:10.989)
Listen, listen, The Game, you remember David Fincher's The Game with Michael Douglas from 1997? I adore that movie, I adore that movie, and for 29 years now I have not told people what genre it's in unless they've seen it before. Because as soon as you tell people the genre, it spoils part of the dramatic heft of the story itself.
Jett Loe (08:16.602)
Yeah, a lot of people love that movie.
Jett Loe (08:33.018)
It kind of was a ripoff for me of the GK Chesterton short story called something like Major Brown or something. That was from the wonderful novella book series of stories called The Club of Queer Trades. The Club of Queer Trades, great book, should be made into.
Gareth (08:47.041)
The Chesterton fans among us have just had the game spoiled for them.
Jett Loe (08:52.998)
I'm just saying if they've read Major Brown, then they know what the deal is. Also, I would love to see a film adaptation of GK Chesterton's The Man Who Is Thursday. I think Orson Welles did a radio version of that. I don't know why that hasn't been made into a movie. Why can't I spoil it? Because folks, mean, yes.
Gareth (09:06.997)
Okay, tell you what, tell you what, tell you what, give people an opportunity, on the count of three you'll name a genre, but anybody who doesn't want to know the genre, they can skip forward so they don't hear that. In fairness, I'll tell them what the game is to. How about that, we can do two of those things. So you're gonna go first, Begonia. Begonia on the count of three is one, two, three.
Jett Loe (09:24.73)
Okay. Sure. Okay.
Jett Loe (09:34.114)
one of the very best, if not the very best, end of the world films.
Gareth (09:39.583)
And the game is one, two, three, the best contemporary interpretation of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. All that said, let's segue. Did we manage to cover the fact that I haven't seen Begonia?
Jett Loe (09:50.033)
yeah, you're right. You're right. Move on.
Jett Loe (09:58.992)
did I just spoil begonia for you? They're still sorry folks. Sorry, Gareth. 85 years of doing this damn show. Let's move on.
Gareth (10:00.748)
Alright, we're gonna, for you our dear listeners, we're not just gonna do the best picture nominees, we're gonna talk about some of the other categories too. Because it's, you know, they matter. They matter. Movies matter. And actors, actors, actors.
Jett Loe (10:22.428)
Movies matter. Isn't that the new Nicole Kidman advertisement? Movies matter. She comes in wearing the clothes from Eyes Wide Shut and they reunite her and Tom.
Gareth (10:30.092)
There's not too many of them. The speculation, there aren't. There's a lot of people in Eyes Wide Shut who are allergic to clothes, as you have, I think you coined that phrase. Actor in a supporting role. You got your Benicio, you got your Jacob, you have your Delroy, your Sean, and your Stellan. What do you think in Jet? Benicio del Toro in One Battle After Another.
Jett Loe (10:54.599)
Yes.
Well, I think, yes. Sean Penn's already won a bunch, right? He doesn't need anymore. I think it's clear that the sentimental favorite, yes, the sentimental favorite, everyone is rooting for Delroy Lindo.
Gareth (10:59.722)
Jacob Elordi in Frankenstein, Delroy Lindo in Sinners, Sean Penn in One Battle After Another, and Stella Skarsgard in Sentimental Value. We're having fun, it's nice to have fun. Yes, we're eliminating the pen.
Jett Loe (11:21.0)
For a lot of reasons because he's been working, you know, he's been a working actor for years He always showcases great humanity the character and he plays in sinners, you know He has this heartbreaking monologue. It reminds me of a scene in Terminator the first Terminator and this is Ryan Cukor such a great commercial filmmaker You know in Terminator evolves exposition about a robot from the future How do you how do you get that out there without slowing the film down Cameron? very smart puts it and puts it into a car with Sarah Connor and Reese and they're driving so you have some sort of movement while the
Gareth (11:21.665)
Yes.
Jett Loe (11:50.906)
position dump happens and the same thing happens in Sinners where Delroy gives his horrific backstory, but they're propulsively moving forward. So very smart. And he's so great and people want Delroy Lindo to win, think. Benicio del Toro won battle after another. mean, you know, it's a few small actors here in this film. He's of course incredible and wonderful, but he should win.
Gareth (12:11.851)
I mean it is
He's fantastic and he's...
Jett Loe (12:18.821)
He should win just for the way he says honeymoon in License to Kill, AKA License Revoked, where he plays a henchman. And he's like 19 and he is gorgeous. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have not seen this James Bond film, he plays a henchman and he's unrecognizable because he's like, know, one half the size that he is now. And he is beautiful and he's evil. He's like a ballet dancer of evil. Fantastic. The way he says honeymoon, give that man the award. But this year, give it to Delroy Lindo.
Gareth (12:46.46)
I agree, actually all five actors here were the choices. Del Toro has won an Oscar before, Sean's won a couple, Jacob Elordi will win one in the future. He is actually, to my mind, the best thing in Guillermo Del Toro's Frankenstein. And when I saw Sinners, was not only, as you call it, sentimentally hopeful that Delroy Lindo would win, but confident that he...
Jett Loe (13:02.076)
Yes.
Gareth (13:15.884)
deserves to win. is a great performance. It's one of the climactic moment for his character is one of the great going down with the ship scenes in cinema. And I want to put a word in for Stellan Skarsgard because the character he plays and the way he plays it in Sentimental Value is one of the hardest types of roles to play and to be noticed for. And that is to immerse yourself in a non showy role.
So there's nothing showy about sentimental value, but it has deep, profound, permeating emotion if you sit with it. Having said that, Delroy should win. I think Delroy will win. it's all about whether or not we're happy with who wins, right? Isn't that what it comes down to? That's the most important thing.
Jett Loe (14:06.439)
That's the most important thing, folks. You know, because clearly it's important to apply metrics to art. You know, and also I think Skarsgard, you he should have gotten it for Hunt for Red October. So when he, the moment when he realizes that he's going to no, he's great. I forgot he was in those. Boy, he's been, Skarsgard.
Gareth (14:14.58)
Yes, exactly, exactly.
Gareth (14:20.876)
There's nothing he shouldn't have gotten it for except maybe the Thor films. Was he like a scientist in the Thor films? But he's one of those he's one of those people there's nothing that isn't made better by him. F1, F1. Can I tell you something about? you want to start, you want to start but I have something to say about F1.
Jett Loe (14:40.569)
No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. This is your film of the year. This is my hope. This is my dream.
Gareth (14:44.632)
F1 has in its opening five minutes one of the most extraordinary, beautiful, is not big enough a word, spectacular images I've ever seen in a movie. its car racing around a track very late at night, almost nobody in the arena.
Jett Loe (14:52.645)
That's all you've seen.
Gareth (15:14.056)
and fireworks in the skyline. And it's exquisite. It made me excited to watch this Joe Kaczynski film. And then I paused it and I've had no interest in returning to it yet, but I will watch the rest of the film at some point. It looks to me to be a high quality popcorn classic, but it does have that. I mean, you've got to admit that when you saw that car going around the track with those fireworks, you thought, okay.
Jett Loe (15:35.259)
Well,
Gareth (15:42.656)
This is a cut above what I was expecting.
Jett Loe (15:46.733)
Not from Kaczynski because he has a certain, he is a big screen stylist and not no spoilers, but there's fireworks that come back at the end. You know, he did, don't forget he did that Tron picture a while back. You know, he did Top Gun, he did Oblivion, which, you know, they had, they...
Gareth (15:49.824)
He's got a pedigree. Yes.
Gareth (16:02.447)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a great film. Oblivion's a great film.
Jett Loe (16:05.837)
Oblivion, mean, for me, it falls down the third act, but I mean, they did something which was later, they anticipated in some form, which we now have a technology called the volume, where you have, instead of green screening, you sort of have the environment around them. So when they built the set where Tom Cruise lives in Oblivion, it's a huge screens where they project clouds on. It's a beautiful film. he loves motion. And in some ways, almost experimental with his love of motion and color reminds me very much of early George Lucas, George Lucas,
because his student films, he has one where he's just cutting a car race together. And it reminds me a lot of that. He's a great visual stylist. For me, the big thing about F1, Gareth, and Dear Listeners is sort of the merger of corporate and cultural power, right? Because you think about films like Casablanca, it was a great propaganda movie. Part of the idea of, or the main idea of Casablanca was let's get people on.
wanting to join the war effort, right? It was produced before Pearl Harbor, and we're trying to get people to realize why the Nazis are a problem, and we want people to just be able to sacrifice in order to defeat these people. And F1, and that's, there you have the studio and service of a national goal. In F1, you have this merger of Apple,
and which produced the film, basically it's their money and sport power because Apple now has, guess what folks, a five year deal with F1 to be the exclusive home of the sport in the United States. And so you don't think that F1 was not made in anticipation or a part of that. So it's a huge merger of corporate and cultural power. So there's no reason we can't see this also. Now we have like in the United States, know, these big news media companies being bought up, CBS has been bought up, part of TikTok has been bought up, looks like CNN has been
bought up HBO Warner's All By One family that has a very specific political view. And so we can, you can imagine, you know, huge spectacles, not just of news, but of culture, marshal to the dictates of.
Jett Loe (17:59.879)
of the state or of the corporation. So that's the most interesting thing to me about F1. That and all the digital smoothing, which is really getting distracting on Brad Pitt. I mean, he's good looking guy, but maybe he's not. We don't know because now they're just digitally smoothing. They're just doing a huge amount of work on him. F1, go see it or don't if you got the apples. What are we doing next? Frankenstein.
Gareth (18:08.213)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (18:12.277)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (18:18.379)
Frankenstein, Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein. Has there been a director in the history of the film talk who we as individuals and together as a unit, as a duo, have more wanted to succeed and been more disappointed at what's missing? Because here's the thing, it's clear.
Jett Loe (18:33.327)
Yes.
Jett Loe (18:37.412)
Yes, disappointed every time, every time.
Gareth (18:45.045)
Guillermo del Toro, it's clear that he is a lover of life, a lover of people, a lover of cinema. It's absolutely clear he'd be a totally fascinating person to spend time with. He's really good at opening doors for younger and less experienced filmmakers. He's clearly just an all-around good guy, magnificent visual stylist, and he has made one or two, I'm gonna say at least
two films that are perfectly realised where the visual astonishments don't overwhelm the craft of the storytelling and the character development. And those are very early in his career, Kronos and The Devil's Backbone. And I love The Devil's Backbone, I revisit it periodically. It's a film that is
of ache and love.
Gareth (19:48.438)
But, Pan's Labyrinth just killed the bad guy in the most unpleasant way possible. The Shape of Water spent 95 % of the running time creating this beautiful, credible, incredible magical world full of characters on the margins of society being brought into the center and at the end just killed the bad guy in a horrible way.
Jett Loe (20:14.181)
Yeah.
Gareth (20:15.691)
Nightmare Alley, which you and my partner Brian pointed out to me, Nightmare Alley is a film about a man who's had a horribly abusive childhood and has responded to this abuse by saying, I'm not gonna let anybody do that to me again. And so he becomes the kind of the perpetrator of a lie on society and his life ends in complete disaster and tragedy. But the film seems to like that.
the ache of the tragedy in his life is not present in the film. And here we are with Frankenstein, looks magnificent, and it has the ending that I wanted the shape of water to have, where there's reconciliation between the perpetrator, Victor Frankenstein, and this tragically distorted figure in the form of the monster.
Jett Loe (20:54.672)
Yes.
Gareth (21:09.291)
But the rest of it was almost like they inverted the shape of water because as I've just said, I love that first 95 % of the shape of water. I think it's perfect until the very ending. Whereas I think with Frankenstein, the ending is perfect and the rest of the film doesn't justify it. Now there is apparently going to be an extended cut. I will watch it, but I don't think that that's going to change two things that I didn't like about it. And I'm eager to hear if if you know any further thoughts you have about it since.
Jett Loe (21:27.994)
Okay.
Gareth (21:37.297)
months ago when we talked about it the first time. The images look plastic and you were saying something about there's something shiny and it just took me out of the film. And the other thing is, God bless him, he's a great actor, but Christoph Waltz needs to play different kinds of roles. is he the most typecast good actor working today?
Jett Loe (21:42.768)
Yes.
Jett Loe (21:58.468)
No, no, he has to play the Christoph Waltz. He's required. Okay, listen, hold on, stop.
Jett Loe (22:05.679)
Here's the problem when you make a deal with the devil, right? When he signed the papers to become a world famous successful Oscar winning actor for the same role. didn't, he didn't read the, you gotta read the fine print. I've always told people this. I've lost count of the amount of people that I know that assigned a deal with Mr. Hobb. And.
Gareth (22:08.843)
Double Oscar winning actor.
Gareth (22:27.509)
deal with the devil.
Jett Loe (22:29.157)
You know, you're there at the crossroads. got to, you got to, you know, I know you feel a lot of pressure and it's very tempting and he fell down that trap. And so he's he's requiring, he can't get out of it. You can't you can't fool this guy. mean, Waltz can't play the fiddle. He can't go fiddle his way out of it. You know what I mean? So he's stuck doing this. So I'm going to put that to the side because he can't he can't help it. You know, here's what I suggest. Why don't we?
watch the extended cut if there is such a thing and then we can revisit it. And it's interesting, yeah, the problem is you have these incredible sets. You know, we talked about this before about the Hobbit movies how because it was shot at a high frame rate, the incredible sets, wardrobe, makeup, all look like a theater production because the resolution was so high. Then you've got folks, is it Greg Frazier? Who's the cinematographer for the Dunes, the Dune movies? You know, with this process, well, what do you do? You shoot digitally, then you print it out, you then transfer it to film.
Gareth (22:54.111)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gareth (23:03.797)
Mm.
Gareth (23:13.385)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Greg Fraser.
Jett Loe (23:21.161)
and then you re-scan it so you get some sort of film grade because there's this innate understanding that the...
film itself, the moving through the gate when you're recording or projecting it, does something. Hide is not correct, though it is in a literal sense, it hides the stagecraft, right? But it imbues it with a quality that is more dreamlike, right? That's why it's more, you know, the film becomes a city of dreams almost when you do that. So that's, think, part of the success of Dune. And I'm curious, did we talk about this when we reviewed Frankenstein? If review is the right word?
Gareth (23:41.215)
Thank
Gareth (23:45.771)
Thank
Jett Loe (23:58.374)
I suggested maybe just recording it, like put it on a TV screen and then get a film camera and just record it off the screen and then watch that version. I think that might help. Should we move on? Should we move on into actress in a supporting role?
Gareth (24:01.948)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gareth (24:09.972)
Let's,
Who's up for this prestigious award in sentimental value? Have you gotten far enough into sentimental value to see Elfhining in it yet? You have, okay. All right. Yes.
Jett Loe (24:14.873)
We got your L fanning. We got your L fanning sentimental value. We've got Inga.
I have, yes. We're gonna talk about my feelings about sentimental value when we get to it. If you don't mind. We got Elle Fanning, sentimental value. We've got Inga, Ibs daughter, Lily asked, how do you pronounce her name? Inga, we got Inga, I'm terrible with Scandinavian names folks, I'm sorry, it's my only fault. We got Inga and sentimental value as well. So they're against each other. Elle and Inga are against each other. We got Amy Madigan.
Gareth (24:46.868)
They'll cancel each other out. They will cancel each other out. Yes.
Jett Loe (24:49.815)
It's possible. We got Amy Madigan in weapons, very flashy role. We got, how do you pronounce her name? Wunmi Musaku, sinners, amazing. Tiana Taylor, amazing one battle after another. What do you think? What are your predictions here? What are your hopes? What are your fears? What are your concerns?
Gareth (24:56.477)
When we massacre when we massacre
Gareth (25:05.096)
Well, my concern, I don't want to get into my concerns today. We're talking about movies. people go to the movies to escape, Jett. So all great performances. Amy Madigan, I've written down here, the opposite of Scarsgard and fantastic.
Jett Loe (25:13.151)
Okay, all right, I mean we're here for you
Jett Loe (25:21.003)
The City of Dreams.
Jett Loe (25:33.017)
Yes.
Gareth (25:34.345)
delightful in web. Well, delightful is the wrong word because she's horrible. But but there's something of the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang about this character just over the top, you know, plump boy and cruelty and a film that's actually making a really important point about when one generation when the dominant figures in one generation are
unwilling to allow people who are coming up behind them to take their proper place in society and what they're willing to do to generations coming behind. You know me, Ted. I ended up, I saw three horror films last year. I've probably seen three horror films in the last decade prior to that. I loved...
Jett Loe (26:22.437)
One of them was F1, just the digital smoothing on Brad Pitt.
Gareth (26:28.572)
I loved weapons. I love Amy Madigan in weapons. Last time she was nominated was 40 years ago. I think she's the kind of person she and her husband Ed Harris probably only go to the Oscars when one of them is nominated and they sit on the porch at a farm, smoking hand-rolled cigarettes with one of them strumming a guitar. I'll be delighted to see her win. But everybody in this category is great. A word for Tiana Taylor, who I first noticed in... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jett Loe (26:54.949)
Could I just stop you there? Wouldn't you love to see a production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf with Ed Harris and Amy Madigan?
Gareth (27:02.794)
No, no, I wouldn't love to see that because it would be fantastic, but it would be deeply, deeply, deeply unpleasant. It's an unpleasant play.
Jett Loe (27:12.269)
because when you mention them like sitting on a porch, I'm just imagining like what if somebody has too much scotch at home, like real life, like I don't know how wound up tight these couple, you know, Ed Harris is in real life, but I'm just like.
Gareth (27:23.08)
I want them to do a podcast together. Of course, Jett, one of your favorite films, Field of Dreams, Amy Madigan is marvelous in that. How many times have you seen the 4K disc of Field of Dreams that I purchased and had shipped to your house that you promised you would watch? How many times have you watched it? No.
Jett Loe (27:31.054)
no, I'll see it someday.
Jett Loe (27:40.463)
Dear listeners, Gareth did buy, Gareth bought me an expensive boxed version, you know, special room master version 4K field of dreams. I will watch it. My personal pledge to you, Gareth, and the listeners.
Gareth (27:53.716)
Yes. Under what circumstances?
Jett Loe (27:58.597)
before I go to the valley below, if you understand my meaning. One more cup of coffee before I go to the valley below.
Gareth (28:02.346)
Okay, okay, very good. Very good. Tiana Taylor, you're in one battle after another fan, or as one of my friends who was trying, couldn't remember the name of the film a few weeks ago, she was saying she really enjoyed all the wars all the time. Tiana Taylor, Tiana Taylor. There's a film called A Thousand and One from three years ago that was my favorite film of I guess, 2022. What year are we in? 2023?
Jett Loe (28:18.542)
That's what they call it in the Philippines.
Gareth (28:31.434)
Watch 1001, dear listener. And Jett, I don't know, have you seen 1001?
Jett Loe (28:36.58)
I have it, it's a great title though.
Gareth (28:38.618)
Another film that you can't tell people what the genre is. All right. That has a Tiana Taylor's at the center of that film. Marty Supreme is the next film nominated for Best Picture. please, please. Yes, yes, yes.
Jett Loe (28:42.282)
Okay, that's got Tiana Taylor in it.
Jett Loe (28:48.9)
Could I say something about the actress in a supporting role? Can I say something before? I know it's the Gareth Higgins show and I'm just here to support you, but I'm just saying, come on, man. No, here's the thing. Why do you think that Chase Infinity, which is the most amazing name ever, wasn't nominated for actress in a supporting role for one battle after another? Because she's in it far more than Tiana Taylor is.
Gareth (29:03.711)
Yes.
Jett Loe (29:14.722)
T. Anne Taylor, of course, she's in the first few minutes and then we hear her at the end. So she's always present in the film at some level. But why not a little something for old Chase Infinity? We don't know, it's a mystery. No, I... No, no idea. I'm assuming Graft. I'm assuming she didn't make a payoff. I don't know. Who do you hope wins? Are you hoping for Masako for Sinners? You're hoping for Amy Madigan. Okay. All right.
Gareth (29:15.752)
I... Yeah.
Gareth (29:21.108)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What does your crystal ball tell you?
Gareth (29:32.074)
So we come to the show.
Gareth (29:38.622)
Who do I hope wins? Amy Madigan. Amy Madigan. Amy Madigan. Yes.
Jett Loe (29:43.437)
I'm happy with, you know what? I'm just happy they're nominated. That's where I'm at, because I'm such a nice person. Marty Supreme. Listen, if you want to see a Safdie, this is one of the Safdies. There's a bunch of Safdies. They made a couple of films together. They made The Good Times and what is it? Uncorked Liquor. What is it? No, uncooked, uncut jams. That was not a poor attempt at humor. just literally, it wasn't coming to me.
Gareth (29:46.804)
Yes, you are.
Gareth (29:59.506)
I'm kidding.
No, that's good. I hope listening to the show is as therapeutic for the listener as is for me doing it.
Jett Loe (30:13.016)
Well, that's why what if you found out years from now that actually, I am a therapist in this entire thing. It's like the game spoilers for the game.
Gareth (30:15.847)
The- the- There's
Right, right, and it's a private feed that you put on my iPhone and the reviews... Well, we know there are no listeners.
Jett Loe (30:26.126)
There are no listeners, everything. There are no listeners. The whole thing is faked from like a Belfast Peace Fund.
Gareth (30:34.547)
Dave Klaus is listening, Dave Klaus is listening and Andrew Johnson is listening. We know Dave and Andrew are listening. I'm so touched. Is this Lars and the Real Girl?
Jett Loe (30:40.44)
Yes, they're paid. They're paid to listen. And this is a giant therapy session. And you only find out when you go to a bookstore, you go to a bookstore and you're like in the self-help books and you see a volume, you pull it out. It's my name is really like Frank Heffenhofer. And I talk about experimental treatments in therapy. And you realize this has been a multi-decade. It's a tough one.
Gareth (31:01.757)
And you had a really hard case. You had a really hard case. But you loved him. You loved him. You were committed. And you spent 20 years working at it. Yes. If you want to.
Jett Loe (31:11.49)
That's not, I'm a professional. That love doesn't have anything to do with it. You know what I mean? I got to keep a distance. Marty Supreme. Listen, if you want to see a Safdie, if you want to see a Safdie folks, I would say Good Times. Good Times is fantastic. That's the, if you only have one chance to watch one of the Safdies, I would go with Good Times. Marty Supreme, we've already talked about it on the show. I thought it would have been vastly improved if he had lost the match, the ping pong match at the end before seeing his child because then.
Gareth (31:24.499)
Right?
Jett Loe (31:39.832)
that would open up his heart in a way that we don't see in the film, because the film, already succeeded his dreams, and that gives him the emotional space to have a child, whereas if he had lost, that to me would be a richer, more honest and accurate portrayal of the human condition.
Gareth (31:41.499)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Gareth (31:52.554)
Well, because again, from your favourite film Field of Dreams, there is a character who says it would have been a tragedy if I'd only gotten to be a doctor for 10 minutes. it's the same thing. thing I do want to you did just say you don't think love has anything to do with your professionalism. I would beg to differ. Anything done well in the service of goodness is a subset of love. Thank you, Dr. Heffenhofer.
Jett Loe (32:20.174)
That's Frank Heffenhofer. Frank Heffenhofer. Where did that name come from?
Gareth (32:21.693)
Dr. Heffenhofer? it? Frank Heffenhofer. Well, all right. Can we move on? Shall we move on to cinematography? Cinematography. Cinematography.
Jett Loe (32:28.952)
Yes, we can. And then what if I accidentally refer to myself as Frank Lader, you realize it's all been a dream. Cinematography, so listen, yeah.
Gareth (32:36.754)
Listen, what an act of love. Talk to us about cinematography. What is cinematography, Dr. Hafenhofer? What is cinematography?
Jett Loe (32:41.486)
Well, we got a few nominations here. We got Dan Laustin. Dan Laustin has been nominated for his work in Frankenstein. Darius Kanji, very famous, super famous guy. Marty Supreme, Michael Bauman won battle after another. Sinners, Autumn Durold Archipel, if that's how pronounce her name. I'm terrible with names. I apologize to you if you're listening. And Train Dreams, Aldovo Veloso. I'm missing, I'm mangling all these names. I am so sorry.
Gareth (32:49.459)
Shiny.
gritty, slow.
Gareth (33:07.017)
Perfect. Perfect.
Jett Loe (33:11.012)
I have thoughts, but please go ahead if you have any thoughts on this,
Gareth (33:14.277)
No, you go first, please. Please.
Jett Loe (33:16.644)
Well, I mean, this is a tough one. Now, I don't know like one battle after another. There's a guy called John Alcott. I don't know if you know he was a cinematographer. And maybe even, did he win for Barry Lyndon? Possibly, he worked in 2001 with Stanley Kubrick. But the thing is, is that Kubrick basically, let's all be honest. Let's be honest with each other, folks. Just like Frank Heffenhofer has not been honest with Gareth. And that he was more of a lighting camera, meaning that Kubrick was really the cinematographer, because Kubrick was like the boss of himself.
Gareth (33:23.411)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gareth (33:28.402)
Made it on.
Gareth (33:34.909)
Finally.
Gareth (33:41.725)
Yes.
Jett Loe (33:45.092)
and his work and so Alcott helped facilitate that. And I don't know if Michael Ball, I'm wondering, because I feel that maybe Paul Thomas Anderson, did he shoot, he may have shot the Phantom Thread himself. So it's possible, I'm not sure. I know nothing against Michael Ball, but I'm curious about what that role was there. It is a collaborative meeting. Well, that's what the...
Gareth (34:01.875)
collaborative medium. It's a collaborative medium like this podcast.
Jett Loe (34:08.215)
That's correct. We are both doing this together. I am Jet Low, your friend of many decades who has worked with you on this podcast. That is correct.
Gareth (34:17.214)
Ha
Gareth (34:21.874)
No, were you telling me you originally wanted to call this podcast the 9th Configuration?
Jett Loe (34:28.515)
Well, that's interesting. don't, I kind of want to call.
Gareth (34:29.897)
That's a deep cut. Don't know what genre that is either. You can't say what genre the ninth configuration is. That's an interesting show. Films whose genre you can't denounce.
Jett Loe (34:36.279)
That's a film, we should talk about the 9th configuration.
That's interesting. Also, there's another show we could do where I realized that all my favorite films have one very specific thing in common and I never realized it and it took me decades to realize and that's also very interesting. And in every, yes, then he plays a post-apocalyptic, post-apocalyptic, postman. Did you get the joke there, folks? He plays a postman, postman. Okay, so Train Dreams.
Gareth (34:54.067)
Kevin Costner plays a farmer.
Gareth (35:03.145)
Yes. Post. Man. Yes.
Jett Loe (35:09.131)
You it's almost a sentimental favorite. I got sentimental value for it because it was shot 99 % like Barry Lyndon with natural light. They used lights on it in some cases. Barry Lyndon used lights too, but Train Dreams a lot was shot with natural light. I imagine they used diffusers. You diffuse the sun or you have what's called bounce or negative fill where you can bounce light in using a board of some kind or some fabric, or you can take light away by putting black fabric or a black board. But Train Dreams is incredibly beautiful. Shot.
because I guess they wanted to be old timey in a three, two aspect ratio. It's almost kind of square and old timey. It's so beautiful. But Sinners, I can see being a popular favorite because it is just so flashy, propulsive, fun to watch, meaningful, deep, rip roaring blockbuster. So I'm guessing Sinners is gonna win.
Gareth (35:55.081)
Well, the images in centers look like they're sweating.
Jett Loe (36:00.931)
Yes.
Gareth (36:02.024)
which is as it should be. And one battle after another in Marty Supreme, they actually do have that quality you were discussing earlier that Frankenstein lacks where it feels like you're watching a tangible object. And Frankenstein, I imagine its nomination here is more to do with how objects are arranged in the frame than it is to do with how the image feels because the image feels like plastic.
Jett Loe (36:18.477)
Yes.
Gareth (36:31.978)
I'd give the award to Train Dreams, which is a movie that made me believe in movies again. I'll say more about it later. I first saw it on TV the first time and then I had the pleasure of being able to see it in a true movie palace later. But we'll get to that toward the end of the show. It's an exquisite looking film and it manages to do that thing where it doesn't... Yeah, it might. But it's both exquisite and plausible.
Jett Loe (36:32.214)
It's very strange.
Jett Loe (36:37.729)
Yes.
Jett Loe (36:54.275)
Train Dreams might win actually, it might be at OutSinners, yeah.
Gareth (37:01.48)
Whereas, I don't know, Barry Lyndon, which I saw in a theatre last year, fantastic looking film. I don't know how plausible it feels. not lived in aristocratic England and Ireland in the 18th century, I can't speak with any degree of credibility about that, of course.
Jett Loe (37:20.963)
Well, it's really a funny film. It's very, it's so dry. You know, it has some of my most famous laugh out loud comedy moments. Maybe my favorite comedy moment in any film. So it's a very funny film, but you really have to be, it's like Eyes Wide Shut. You have to kind of, you have to realize, you have to engage with the fact that it's an incredibly dry comedy a lot of the time. So, you know, the funny moment, and okay, you want spoilers for Barry Lyndon? There's this elaborate scene where Barry, Barry,
Gareth (37:25.638)
Yeah.
Gareth (37:38.322)
Yeah, yeah. What's that funny moment?
Gareth (37:45.084)
Yes.
Jett Loe (37:48.643)
who has many titles throughout the film. needs, he's absconded, he's left, he's gone AWOL from his military service and he happens upon a beautiful woman with a baby and they make sweet love. They have this beautiful romantic moment. You think this is an incredible moment for the two of them where there's ships that pass in the night, they'll never see each other again. This is so much passion that two people, just for a moment in the middle of war and great tragedy, great terrible circumstances, folks can find a way to connect. It's beautiful.
He leaves on his horse. And then the narrator says, well, that was really nice, but you know, hers is a castle. It's been stormed many times before. And it just completely undercuts everything. Like, yeah, these are just like adults. They're just getting it on. There's no romance here. Come on now. It's very, very funny. It's again, a very eyes wide shut kind of comedy film.
Gareth (38:25.96)
Jett Loe (38:41.27)
Moving on.
Gareth (38:43.376)
Yeah, I'm just aware of time and this is good episode.
Jett Loe (38:48.546)
Yeah, yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. Moving on. Okay, 20 minutes. Moving on. Into film, film editing, the one, the category, they were, do you remember that they announced that we're not gonna show it the other, know, Oscars pass, we're gonna take it out. And then people liked Totoro. Like the one thing that is specific to film, it's different than anything else like stage or music or whatever is film editing. So here, the nominees film editing, F1, Stephen Morrone, Marty Supreme.
Gareth (38:51.389)
Yep.
So moving on, you want to talk about film editing?
Gareth (39:01.96)
They weren't going to show it, yes. Ironically, they were going to edit it out.
Yeah.
Jett Loe (39:17.218)
One of the Safdies, Josh Safdie, Ronald Bronstein. One battle after another, Andy Juergensen, sentimental value. Olivier Coutet, I could be mispronouncing your name, so sorry Olivier. Sinners, Michael Schaver. What do you thought here?
Gareth (39:30.984)
So let me say one thing again, know, all the ones I've seen all great sentimental value. A lot of the strength of sentimental value depends on people looking at each other. And typically films that have, you know, quote unquote flashy editing will get nominated in here. There is nothing flashy about sentimental value and it deserves this film editing nomination.
Jett Loe (39:43.713)
Okay.
Jett Loe (39:58.691)
Let's talk about the opening scene of sentimental value where we see the house and we cut to the house. Would it have been more effective if that was just one long tracking shot rather than cutting to like the frame of a window? that right now, pieces.
Gareth (40:02.406)
Yeah.
Gareth (40:11.124)
No, because... Well, do you want to show your hand about sentimental value at this point of the episode, or do you want to save it for a twist ending?
Jett Loe (40:21.824)
We could save it because I, okay, well, and I'll say it right now, I have not seen all of Seminole Value after this show because I didn't get a screener in time to watch it. And after the show, I rented it from like Apple or some horrible platform, whatever platform, I rented it from Plurk or something or Ploobo. So I've got 24 hours to watch it. So I'm gonna watch right after the show and I'll post my thoughts on our Patreon page and our Facebook page.
Gareth (40:25.16)
you
Gareth (40:37.838)
horrible.
Gareth (40:47.696)
So your point about would have been better if that opening shot had been one tracking shot. Maybe, maybe not. it is that shot is repeated at least one more time in the film and maybe twice, maybe twice. OK, one battle after another. All the wars all the time are. You can. Yes.
Jett Loe (40:56.556)
Gotcha, okay. Okay, got it. Can I just say something about editing? I know you're just rushing through, but remember it's about both of us, not just about you, even though I know this show is helpful to you. This is Jet Low, your friend of 20 years speaking. I will say one...
Gareth (41:12.936)
Oh, thank you. Thank you, Jet. Another film, Shutter Island. You cannot tell people what genre Shutter Island is. Are we in Shutter Island?
Jett Loe (41:29.396)
If we were, I wouldn't tell you. One battle, will say this, film editing, will say, you know, we're gonna talk about which film we wish won, like, you know, what film we hope wins best picture, what have you. One battle after, I'd be happy if, I'll tell you right now, I'll be happy if either Sinners or One Battle wins. But One Battle is at the highest form of filmmaking in all its art forms, in music, in editing, in...
Gareth (41:31.08)
Thank you, Sir Bed. Thank you, Sir Bed.
Jett Loe (41:55.403)
direction, all those things. There's a 20 minute sequence in one battle after another with just a little plinky music in the background. That's my impersonation of the score.
Gareth (42:05.267)
I think plinky is actually the ethnomusicological term for it. Plinky. Plinky. Plinky.
Jett Loe (42:09.736)
It is clinky. the thing is, that 20, plinky, yes, plinky. There is a sequence 20 minutes where Leonardo DiCaprio gets a warning he's got to leave his home. And then for the next 20 minutes with this plinky music in the background, he's incredible adventures that ends with him getting tased. It is an astonishing merger of tracking camera movements, editing, music performance. Unbelievable. It's the highest.
Gareth (42:19.899)
Yes.
Jett Loe (42:34.242)
level. Everybody's collaborative medium. Everybody's firing in the highest level. So for me, I think one battle after another should win. But again, with almost anything here in this year's Oscars, I'd be happy with Sinners as well for a bunch of different reasons because Sinners is sort of a gateway drug to cinema. We'll talk about that in a minute. Okay, let's move on. One battle after another. Go!
Gareth (42:53.157)
I liked one battle after another too and I sit with some ambiguity around it because first of all, I've been enjoying watching Paul Thomas Anderson's films for nearly 30 years now. His film Magnolia was very special to me for a long time. I've sort of somewhat changed my mind about that since there is a humanity in his films and a darkness, bleakness in his films that is fairly unusual.
You know, One Battle After Another does a lot of invoking of other movies, Vanishing Point, Vertigo. And I was thinking earlier today in terms of its portrayal of activism, I'd want to watch it alongside Norman Jewison's film The Hurricane with Denzel Washington. I don't know if you've seen that movie yet, but there's a there's a trio of people, Lee of Shriners, one of them, who are flipping houses together and living in those houses and building a little community and also trying to do activist
work in the world and some of that work succeeds. What's intriguing, sad, challenging and leaves me with this feeling of ambivalence is it's really not clear where this movie's heart and to use a word we've used in this episode probably more than any other TFT episode where its sentiments lie and that's fine a movie doesn't have to take a position and
Maybe it's just an accident of history that it was released at a time when watching it just felt like a bleak mirror to much of the world that we're in. I would really like to see a sequel about what happens to Chase Infinity's character next, about what kind of activist world she moves into. There is talk that the Tiana Taylor character, Perfidia Beverly Hills, is gonna get a film of her own. That'll be interesting too.
Jett, my dear listener friend, Jett or whoever this imposter is who has shown up on the show today is sitting there shaking his head vigorously, still smiling at me, still smiling at me. I think he's trying to self-regulate. It's his job to be, it's your job to be non-reactive in our sessions. Doctor, you said that to me the first time. I remember the first session.
Jett Loe (45:10.977)
I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a little concerned about you, Gareth. My name is Jett Lowe and we do this film podcast together as friends for decades. People listen and enjoy it. I don't find this film bleak at all. This is an incredibly joyous film and in terms of its intentions, it's about the love we have of our children. It's about how we, you know, I have two kids and I F up every day.
Gareth (45:25.168)
Ahem.
Jett Loe (45:35.174)
Every single day I make a mistake in raising them, but I'm trying to do the best I can and I feel very tender towards them. They're not my biological children, right? I entered into a relationship with my wife and she had two little ones and I've been raising them for the last six years and I'm failing every day, but I'm trying.
Gareth (45:52.519)
you
Jett Loe (45:55.08)
And so is Leonardo DiCaprio in this film. And so in her own way was Tiana Taylor's, a Prophetic Beverly Hills character. It's about the love we have for our children and how we're trying to make the world a better place and how they inherit our mantle and continue in their own.
ways. And so I found in that sense, in that context, this is an incredibly joyous film. Both because the filmmaking is so joyous, like I talked about the little plinky moments, but the whole film is unbelievably joyous. I saw it three times in the theater in different formats. I sat through it twice in one day. The other day I was driving, my wife and I were driving through New Mexico on a road trip and it has hills not unlike the river of hills and the climax of this film. And we put on the soundtrack of the film as if we were Leonardo DiCaprio chasing or we were chasing infinity. And it was just a wonderful
Gareth (46:24.775)
you
Jett Loe (46:40.195)
We were crying with laughter and joy. It's a beautiful film. I would love for it to win Best Picture, but again, also I wouldn't mind if Sinners won as well. One battle after another. Okay, now actor in a leading role. We're wrapping up here. We're at the home stretch, The home stretch, that's kind of the terminology they use in a film like F1. Actor in a leading role, got your Timothée Chalamet from Marty Supreme.
Gareth (46:49.191)
you
Jett Loe (47:04.223)
You got your Leonardo DiCaprio one battle after another. You got your Ethan Hawking, Blue Moon. We got your Michael B. Jordan sinners, him and his brother are played two different characters and sinners. And we got a Wagner Mora in The Secret Agent. Go.
Gareth (47:17.699)
Ethan Hawke, he's been around forever, he's great in everything, he plays Lorraine's heart in Blue Moon beautifully and he won't win the best actor Oscar but he should. Leo's won, Timothy will win in the future and he has blotted his copy book by denouncing ballet and opera recently.
Jett Loe (47:29.627)
No, you will not. No, come on. He's not gonna win.
Gareth (47:43.867)
Wagner's definitely, mean, apparently the first Brazilian male actor to be nominated. That will be seen as being nominated as the prize in and of itself. think Michael B. Jordan might win and absolutely deserves it. It's two performances. They're great in this really magnificent film Sinners that we've been thinking about.
for nearly a year, it came out in April last year. It's very rare for a film to have that kind of cultural staying power.
Jett Loe (48:11.893)
Yes.
Jett Loe (48:16.257)
Absolutely. you know, Michael B. Jordan, should win, I think people would really be, and pardon me for swearing, pissed off if he doesn't. And the people will have a lot of reasons to be pissed off if he doesn't win. Like if it goes to Timothée Chalamet, people are gonna lose it.
Gareth (48:32.41)
Yes. He would... Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll see. Music, original score. Imagine what.
Jett Loe (48:37.761)
So we'll see. Imagine if original score or remove and we got a time limit folks. We have so many other films to talk about. I'm suggesting right now we're gonna have to hive off. I wanna talk about K-pop Demon Hunters. I wanna talk about Blue Moon. There's a whole bunch of stuff I wanna talk about. We're not gonna get to it. We're gonna have to do a separate show because we only have a few more minutes left.
Gareth (48:55.962)
You mean there'll be another session? Music. Jerskin, Fendrix for Begonia, Alexandra Desplat for Frankenstein, Max Richter for Hamnet, Johnny Greenwood, one battle and another, and Ludwig Jornsen for Sinners. I have one thing to say about this category. And it's the same thing I want to say about the film itself. Hamnet. Now you have not seen Hamnet yet. Is this correct?
Jett Loe (49:00.161)
I don't know what you're talking about. Original score, got Bagonia.
Jett Loe (49:17.856)
Yes.
Jett Loe (49:22.411)
Yeah. Isn't it interesting, can I just point something out here? We talk about, know, sessions and psychology. We've been going through the best, the nominees for best picture in alphabetical order. I, without thinking about it, did not put Hamnet in there. I have some sort of psychological block about Hamnet.
Gareth (49:37.531)
You've you neglected Hamlet. Yeah. And you haven't seen it yet. OK. OK. So no. So no. No spoilers about about the this particular scene. Max Richter wrote the score for Hamlet. I think Hamlet is a spectacular film. And I think if you watch it with an open mind and.
Jett Loe (49:43.421)
No, and this again, we got to do a spinoff show. We're to do a part two, No spoilers.
Jett Loe (49:58.452)
Okay.
Gareth (50:03.874)
audiences that might suspend cynicism, it might touch you deeply. is a beautiful film and it has a serious, completely avoidable problem in that the most moving scene in the film, the culmination of the movie, uses music that Max Richter composed.
about two decades ago and has already been used in at least two if not three other films and two or three other TV shows to the point where it's the beautiful yet cliched musical piece of our time. It took me entirely out of the movie in this moment. Now, I should have warned you dear listener, if you haven't seen the film yet, wipe what I just said from your memory because the people I know who've seen it and don't know that, they are deeply moved by that last scene.
Jett Loe (50:33.478)
Ooh. Ooh.
Gareth (50:57.02)
very moved by the last scene too, but was kind of in two minds the whole way through, because I'm like, why are you using this piece of music when the very person who's composed the original score for the rest of the film is the person who composed this piece that has become a cliche, almost at the level of Barbara Zadagio for strings after it was used in Platoon. So I suspect Max Richter might actually win the Best Original Score Oscar.
and it might be because many members of the Academy aren't as familiar with these boots. It's very strange in the premiere of Hamlet at the Globe Theatre when Nancy Sinatra is standing off stage. Okay, that's my thoughts on the music. Shall we move to the secret agent?
Jett Loe (51:24.774)
Is it these boots are made for walking? Is it the these boots are made for walking?
Jett Loe (51:43.073)
Yes, I think everyone's saying that Sinners is going to win and I think that's going to be a valid. But what's that for me? Ludwig Jornensen. Yes, I think Sinners is going to win. I may be hard pressed not to win. Secret Agent, I've only seen half of this film to listeners. This is why we have to hive off into it. We're going to hive off into another episode and we'll talk about the Secret Agent because Gareth has not seen the whole film either. We're going to talk about that later. Let's segue into speculation.
Gareth (51:48.326)
as soon as I'm the music.
Centers for the Learn for Music.
Gareth (52:08.432)
We'll do a secret agent episode.
Jett Loe (52:10.536)
about actress in a leading role. got Jessie Buckley for Hamnet, Rose Byrne, if I had legs I'd kick, you always like Rose Byrne, Kate Hudson, your favorite song, song Blue, Renata, don't know how pronounce her last name, she's another sentimental value actress, actor, Rinsvid? I don't know, I'm so sorry Renata. Emma Stone for Bugonia, what do think here? What do know? Who do you hope wins and who do you think should win?
Gareth (52:31.59)
Okay, Sure, they're all wonderful. I hope Jessie Buckley will win. I think she will win. This is an immersive, showy performance, but it is exactly what some people going through, the kind of experiences that this character is going through, appear.
to be like in that moment in their lives. Someone with that kind of poetic open heart experiencing the horror of what this character experiences in Hamlet. I don't understand why some people say that the performance is melodramatic. The performance is not melodramatic. The circumstances that the character is living through are melodramatic.
I think she should win, I think she will win. If it wasn't gonna be her, I would give it to Kate Hudson because again, a difficult kind of performance to be taken seriously in is playing someone who feels real in a film that isn't sure if it's a comedy or a drama. And that's what's going on with Song, Song, Blue. It's not that it's uncertain of that. It's trying to be, it's trying to be, no, I like it very, very much. And often,
Jett Loe (53:31.506)
N- muddled. Muddled.
Jett Loe (53:37.127)
Okay.
Gareth (53:39.142)
a dramatic performance in a film that has some lightness to it doesn't feel right. And so she got noticed and got nominated. She's not going to win. But all of them are great.
Jett Loe (53:52.274)
I think Jesse, I haven't seen Hamnet, but I'm just getting a vibe. You can get a sense. I bet Jesse Buckley is going to get it for Hamnet. All right. Let's, yes. Let's move on. My Irish friend, Sentimental Value. No spoilers. We can tie this off and do a different show. So let's park Sentimental Value.
Gareth (53:56.806)
It's Ireland's year. It's Ireland's year.
Gareth (54:03.365)
Okay, so yeah.
Two sentences, it's the least showy of the ten nominees and the most truthful and it does something I've never... I've been since... ever since I watched it I've been trying to think where have I seen this particular thing in another film. I look forward to talking about it with you when you see it because I can't think of another film that does this particular thing. Maybe one postscript to it. Part of what it's about is not just the love of movies and the love of making movies but the genuine transformative power.
Jett Loe (54:11.805)
Yes.
Gareth (54:38.357)
of being on both sides of either side of the camera.
Jett Loe (54:41.599)
Okay, fantastic. I'm gonna watch the rest today because I've got that 24 hours, $5.99 from Plubo or wherever I rented it, sound metal value. No, Pluto, it's P-L-U-D-O, Pluto. Segway.
Gareth (54:50.413)
not a planet, not a planet anymore.
Gareth (54:55.749)
Isn't he the Prime Minister of Canada?
Jett Loe (55:01.075)
Or possibly he was a long running cartoonist. Yes, he would sketch while he ran. That's how he stayed in shape. That's how he stayed in shape to be able to do his thing for so long, all the way from Vietnam till, I don't know if he's still doing it. Best directing, we got your.
Gareth (55:05.925)
a long running cartoonist. Like he did 24 hour marathons.
Gareth (55:15.503)
Beautiful, beautiful. Why don't you tell us yet, why don't you tell us about Best Director?
Jett Loe (55:21.715)
Best directing you got for Hamnet, got Chloe Zhao, got Safdie, one of the Safdies, Josh Safdie, Marty Supreme, Paul Thomas Anderson, one battle after another. Joachim Trier for Sentimental Value and Ryan Coogler for Sinners. I think a lot of people are there just saying, it's gotta be Ryan for what he's done for the industry, making a big piece of Poppets Entertainment. And Paul Thomas Anderson, obviously one of the greatest filmmakers in the United States, one of the greatest of all time. He's never won, so people are also rooting for him for one battle after another.
Gareth (55:51.3)
I have no objection to that. I would also like to see Chloe Zhao choose to work with small budgets again. She's wonderful and I think maybe having it slightly over egged because they had unlimited resources.
Jett Loe (56:00.586)
But there.
Jett Loe (56:08.635)
Okay, well, I can't wait to see it. Or maybe I can, but I will. I will see it for you. We'll do a special show. And this whole Oscars, either Sinners or One Battle After Another, even when any categories, I'm happy. They're both great films. Last time, Sinners, last film. We're there. We're there right there at the end. Garrison only has a few more minutes. We got to end the session. I mean, I'm sorry. We've got to end the show very, very quickly. This is huge Populous Entertainment,
They used to make movies for adults and that's what Sinners is. It is a gateway drug. If you looked on social media, you saw a lot of people who love movies, but they haven't necessarily watched them as a great art form. Sinners has acted as a gateway drug because it is so full of themes. It works just in a pure narrative, traditional narrative way. It's done in traditional narrative cinema, but it's full of a lot of meat. There's lot of meat on the bone there. I would be happy if it wins or...
Gareth (56:33.304)
Ahem.
Jett Loe (57:00.081)
one battle after another. It's a great movie.
Gareth (57:02.647)
It is too, I don't have anything to add. We did do a whole show on it. Maybe you can go back and listen to that. It's a film that's gonna last. It's not my choice for what I would like to win and that is Train Dreams. And I just wanna say...
Two or three things about it. The thing about train dreams is it gets inside the mind and the heart of a person. There's this idea that there are very few authentic adults in our world, or at least in what some people call the industrial growth society, and that in order to grow up into being an authentic adult, you need to have an initiation into who you really are and what your place is in relationship to the ecosystem. There's a fascinating writer called Bill Plotkin
who talks about an authentic adult is one who experiences themselves first and foremost as a member of the Earth community, understanding that they have a role to play in contributing to that community and in receiving in an interdependent way from other people and the ecosystem of which we're a part. This film, Dreams, came really close to describing what that might be like to be an authentic adult.
And the pathos in the film is that this protagonist, and protagonist is an interesting word, because if protagonist carries the sense of agency and acting on the world around you, I'm not actually sure that Robert Grenier, character that Joel Edgerton plays in Train Dreams, I don't know that he is a protagonist. Part of the point of the film is that life is happening to him in light and shadow. And in a sense, the film is kind of a tragedy about people who don't understand what's happening to them and who maybe
mentors who show them how to navigate it. It's also the film among the 10 best picture nominees that I saw in the most elegant movie palace, the Egyptian Theatre in Hollywood and it's just an exquisite film. I'm really glad it exists. If you haven't seen it to your listener, please do and you know, don't watch it with the remote control in your hand and don't watch it with the lights on if you're watching it at home. Give yourself a couple of hours to sit down and really breathe into this movie.
Gareth (59:15.799)
I think you'd like to train dreams as well, Chet, yes?
Jett Loe (59:18.831)
I agree with everything you said, Gareth. It's maybe the most beautiful film of the year and has some of most beautiful images and it has one of the most beautiful images of death that I've ever seen that sort of reminds me of a scene that is in the X-Files episode with Peter Boyle. Just a beautiful film. I can't recommend it highly enough. I'll be happy if Dreams wins as well. Train Dreams or F1 or One Battle After Another. Well, Gareth, this has been a great show. We're going to do a separate show talking about
Hamlet and Blue Moon and K-Pop Demon Hunters and a whole bunch of others. I really enjoyed doing the show, Gary. Folks, don't forget if you want to support us, if want to get the bonus episodes, can go to our Patreon page. at patreon.com slash The Film Talk and we're on facebook.com slash The Film Talk as well.
Gareth (01:00:06.733)
It has been a joy having this conversation with you, slightly surreal, and I'm somewhat confused wondering what this really is that we're doing here together. But for now, I'm going to trust that it is actually a podcast about the art and meaning of movies and that you are indeed my friend Jet Lo.
Jett Loe (01:00:27.345)
Of course. Folks, thank you so much for listening to the Film Talk. I've been Frank Heffernacher.
Gareth (01:00:31.861)
I've been Gareth Higgins. We keep talking. At the next appointment.