It’s a crowd pleaser that didn’t find a crowd Dear Listener. In this episode Gareth raves about Song Song Blue while Jett tries not to have a heart attack. Will you like it? Should you see it? Only one way to find out, listen and enjoy, you Sweet Caroline you.
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listeners, I'll do it again. Dear listeners, if Gareth knows two things about me, it's these two things. Number one, I love to tune a new casserole. I'll say why in a second. And two, I cannot stand. I cannot stand like nails on a chalkboard, the artistic output of Neil Diamond.
Gareth (00:09.23)
Alright, yeah.
Jett Loe (00:32.931)
And before we get into theme music, normally, I know we do a little banter and all that podcast baloney. I normally want to keep it very quick, but I do want to have the space. Give me the space, please, the grace, Gareth, to say this. When I was a kid, grown up, no money, single mom, crappy apartment, bad part of Oakland, California. As an adult, you realize, we were poor. That's why we ate this food or whatever. Didn't know it at the time. Tuna noodle casserole, very inexpensive to make. You just get the noodles like pasta, very cheap.
Gareth (00:48.119)
Yes.
Jett Loe (01:02.861)
and canned tuna, but as a kid I loved it. I love it now and I understand Gareth and I appreciate, don't get me wrong, why you love this film we're going to talk about because it is so familiar just like I can eat tuna noodle casserole right now even though I know it's not technically good in any real sense it still produces those warm comfort food nostalgia aspects of life that can be so important especially
in times of trouble. So I just want to get that out of the way before we get to the theme music to say, even though the sounds of anybody even impersonating Neil Diamond causes intense physiological, psychological pain. If you want to parse out the physiological and psychological, I sat through it for you because I love you, my friend. All right. You want to say one more thing before we get into the theme music? Do you want to say one thing, Gareth, before we get into the theme music or let's power right through? Song, song, blue.
Gareth (02:00.334)
I'd say each to their own. think Leo Diamond is a genuinely underrated songwriter and a tremendously entertaining performer who when he was still able to perform, he's obviously quite ill at the moment. The thing about what he was doing was the act itself was the point. And maybe we'll get into that as we discuss this film, Song Sung Blue.
Jett Loe (02:27.409)
Can't wait, we've already started. Let's get into it, Gareth and friends.
Welcome once again folks to the Film Talk. It's the ongoing, more than 20 years now, conversation about movies and what they mean. I'm Jet Low.
Gareth (02:42.678)
I'm Gareth Higgins, the conversation never ends. And we're going to talk about Song, Song, Blue today, film directed, written and directed, believe by Craig Brewer, based on a documentary about, as most documentaries are, the real life story of a couple of folks who were kind of local heroes, local stars in the Milwaukee area, a Neil Diamond impersonator and a Patsy Cline impersonator.
Is that a tribute act? Is impersonator disrespectful? Tribute act.
Jett Loe (03:17.329)
Well, it's interesting they make pains in the film to say, oh, you know, I'm not an impersonator, I'm an interpreter, right? So there's this idea, we're not, but if you watch the actual documentary, the song, Song Blue from 2008, he clearly is an impersonator. In fact, looks just like Neil Diamond, whereas of course, yeah, so Hugh Jagger, they're doing something different here. This is one of those inspired by films.
Gareth (03:23.522)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.
Gareth (03:30.402)
They're... Yes. Totally. And he's totally brilliant.
Gareth (03:39.245)
Gotcha. OK, OK. Well, yeah, sure. And although the arc of the narrative and I'm not going to to spoil certainly how their story ended up, it it does tell the truth about the facts of their life. They're played by Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson. They performed they performed as lightning and thunder. Kate Hudson's got an Oscar nomination. This
Jett Loe (04:01.307)
She's great.
Jett Loe (04:07.558)
Great.
Gareth (04:08.31)
this. She's fantastic in the role, he's fantastic in the role. You got Jim Belushi, bonus Belushi, which I read as being a little, he's kind of like their tour booker. And I read that as a little bit of a subtle nod to the Blues Brothers. Also, a tribute act.
Jett Loe (04:29.371)
Well, it's also possible he could get paid, you know, he could work for scale. Let's be honest. I don't know how many opportunities Baloo she has right now.
Gareth (04:33.59)
Well, I got you, but I felt that this film has actually been peopled with... peopled not with types, but with real actors, Fisher Stevens among them. You know, Jet, before... Well, I could say more, but I think before I say more, I believe, is it possible? Is it possible?
Jett Loe (04:43.333)
people that need to work.
Gareth (04:59.902)
even though it might be painful for you to go through listening to it, I believe we may have a clip.
Jett Loe (05:06.929)
We do have a clip. In this clip, we've got Hugh Jackman playing the character of Lightning. Lightning, was it Mike? Mike, yes, he plays Mike. Yes, he plays Mike and he's immersing himself in the world of Neil Diamond. Let's listen in.
Gareth (05:13.366)
Lightning. Lightning.
Gareth (05:18.038)
Lightning Mike.
Gareth (05:29.976)
Gotcha. right. All right. And that is song some blue, which truly for me, it's it's a it's the missed film of this kind of award season. It was released, I believe, on on Christmas Day. didn't do a whole lot of business. It hasn't been seen by a lot of people. And I imagine it's because they looked at the poster, they looked at the trailer and people maybe thought this is a nostalgia.
Jett Loe (05:30.129)
Okay, whenever you're ready.
Gareth (06:00.461)
film and yes Jet you're right, nostalgia can sometimes...
Jett Loe (06:04.845)
It's said explicitly, nostalgia sells. They say it right away at the top. And by that, mean nostalgia for films in the 90s. When these films, every, in the 90s and the 80s, you would have a dozen of these a year.
Gareth (06:13.869)
The
Gareth (06:20.141)
I don't think you'd have it. You would not have a dozen of these a year that are that are as well made, have such a diverse cast and actually speak into the current moment that we're living in. You know that my gold standard for comedies that feel like real life is Tootsie. And while Tootsie, if it were made today, I think there would be more nuance. There would be self-reflection about.
what's the possible impact of making it appear to be the case that a man dressing up in a dress is innately funny because there's obviously now much more consciousness around transphobia that isn't really present in that film. Song Song Blue is a film about blue collar people, heartland people, as it were.
And it could have been made in a way that makes fun of them. There's a movie called Sorted Lives. Have you seen Sorted Lives? The wonderful Leslie Jordan. Sorted Lives is kind of what would happen if John Waters directed Steel Magnolias. It's a very consciously, it is fantastic. It's absolutely fantastic film. It is a knowing self-reflective satire of the US American South. And you know, my husband is from,
Jett Loe (07:33.841)
That sounds great.
Gareth (07:45.55)
the South, spent a whole lot of time in the US American Southeast and about Appalachia in particular. Every Appalachian person that I know, every person who inhabits this kind of culture, loves Sorted Lives as a knowing in joke that's self-deprecating. It's not mocking. It's not punching down. It would have been easy for Song Song Blue to have punched down on these people.
And it's also not Sorted Lives, in that it's not a kind of a...
Jett Loe (08:17.487)
Could you explain that for me? Why would it be easy for the film to punch down?
Gareth (08:22.337)
because it's made by people of immense privilege who often aren't fully tuned in to the implications of that.
Jett Loe (08:29.905)
Well, it's interesting because you talk about Tootsie, you oh, it's dated because you have a man in a that's innately funny. This is a film where it has the cliche of the Asian guy saying something in English, the Neil Diamond song is done for laughs. Right? That was done as, and there's no, what's the difference? He has agency.
Gareth (08:45.505)
Yeah, but he has agency. Because the Thai guy has agency, he's asking to do this himself. And presumably this wouldn't be... Like that's such an obvious location for...
potential criticism to come toward the film. I don't think it be in there if that wasn't actually a representation of something that really happened, that there's a Thai restaurant where they hired Lightning to do karaoke and the owner manager of that restaurant liked to sing the songs. It's...
Jett Loe (09:16.155)
Sure, the film is finding funny. Like, isn't it funny when someone who's foreign, especially Asian and American films, says they're talking in their own language and then they switch to, I mean, the film, I believe that you believe what you're saying, but the film is so obvious in every, can I just give you one example? Can I just tell you something about this movie, dear listeners? Here's the thing, we've all seen movies before. This is the kind of film that opens with Hugh Jackman speaking to the camera.
Gareth (09:30.381)
You
Jett Loe (09:43.953)
and it's done in such a formulaic way. But here's the thing, and I get you love the formula, I get it. I knew nothing about this film. And know, the listener's going cold. You see Hugh Jackman talking about himself to the camera. Right away, you know one of two things to a listener. Because we don't see who he's talking to, we're gonna get one of only two possible things. We're gonna cut to a reaction shot, medium-wide shot of slack-jawed children, middle schoolers.
not understanding why this adult man is talking to him. Or the other second thing, these are the two things I put in my notes, we're gonna cut to a wide shot from above of people sitting in a circle because it's an AA meeting. And every single scene in this film is like that. You have seen, I cannot recall a film that has such an incredible, and this is the install, this is on purpose, lack of imagination. You watch this film, I watched it like a possible middle schooler in Slackjod.
Gareth (10:21.517)
You
Jett Loe (10:41.489)
disbelief as everything plays out exactly like you think. Oh Hugh Jackman's talking to himself in the mirror. It's going on too long. I bet he's gonna have a heart attack. BABAM! Every single scene of this film is like that. It is actually kind of incredible. You think you're watching one of those Will Ferrell parodies of a Hallmark film. I'm not just saying it's a bad film. I'm saying it's a film that'll make you hate movies. Unless like the tuna noodle casserole, it's comfort food.
And I think that's what it is for Gareth. So God bless you. Please go on.
Gareth (11:13.825)
You know, it's amazing in those films in which meteorites come to potentially destroy the Earth. There's typically a scene in which a meteorite comes to destroy the Earth. The question is whether or not it's done well. this film... So this is a film that follows a formula, but I think you're really missing depth and nuance.
Jett Loe (11:22.096)
Yes.
Jett Loe (11:26.235)
Sure.
Jett Loe (11:29.721)
and you want to see it. this exactly you agree with me. You want to see the tidal waves hit New York. You're exactly right, sir.
Jett Loe (11:41.412)
Okay.
Gareth (11:43.99)
And I don't want to spoil it, but let's say this film does not culminate in lightning and thunder, getting a record deal and winning a Grammy. Anything, anything but this film is far more about the experience of them evolving a relationship, the power dynamics in that relationship. It is not all, it's not all like one, one positive step after another. There are setbacks. Yes, he has a heart attack. I've never seen a heart attack.
responded to in a movie the way his heart attack is responded to. The film is honest about the economic... Well, okay, the one in which his child is... He needs his child to save him. It's honest about the economic circumstance of these people. Their house feels lived in and kind of the kind of house that would be lived...
Jett Loe (12:19.653)
Which one? There's a few heart attacks.
Jett Loe (12:33.763)
Okay, I have to stop you. You're about the honest about the economic circumstances. We're talking about the scene and well, there's several, but like he's at the hospital and he can't pay the hospital bills. I mean, every scene in this film, you don't need to reshoot it. Why shoot this? You can just do a collage of that scene that you've seen it 20 times before. There's the aggrieved husband. I can't pay these hospitals. Look at these bills. I mean, you've got to be kidding me here.
This is almost anti-art. If this was made by John Waters, it'd be fantastic. If this was made in 1986, starring Michael Moriarty and Nancy Allen and shot on film, it would be wonderful. Is it also possible, Gareth, that I'm letting my displeasure about the wonderful work of Neil Diamond affect me? Could it be that? Is that why I'm getting so head up about it?
Gareth (13:20.919)
think and you know, it's one of those ones where like you've certainly seen films before that you didn't like the first time and then you watch them again and you like them and I'm not going to try to persuade you one way the other. What I'll say is that I was I was delighted and surprised by the depth of what is done with the formula here that the struggle that these people live through is
It's not resolved with bells ringing. It's not resolved with everything's fine. No, they don't get the record deal. They don't win a Grammy. Pretty terrible things happen to them that haven't been portrayed, what I think with this degree of integrity, in a mainstream formulaic film. The other thing that matters so much to me about this film, like the fact that it's about a Neil Diamond,
tribute actor or impersonator or interpreter. That just happens to be the truth. I happen to think Neil Diamond is an underrated performer. And the reason he's underrated is because he's successful. That's why. It's not because people have actually spent time listening to his songs or they've only heard Sweet Caroline. They haven't spent time with some of his more complex songs. What I appreciated the most about this film is it's a film that doesn't...
condescend to, I've already said it, heartland Americans, and it recognizes that there is ethnic, racial, and political diversity in the heartland. And that is something that...
That story needs to be shouted from the rooftops right now. The very last line of the film, I'm not going to say the context in which it's said, because I think it's for people who will enjoy this film, it's a lovely ending. The last line of the film comes from Kate Hudson, who says beauty in color. And that's what the film is about. The color of life in what I guess the people in the characters in the film would call America. The color of life in.
Gareth (15:31.341)
America. It's not an American dream film. It's actually got more in common with the apartment than it has with a film in which triumph over adversity is played like it's a Formula One racing movie. It's a film that feels lived in and it's a film in which the circumstances of these people's lives
feels like what the circumstances of ordinary people like you and me that our lives are like. Most ordinary people aren't doing film podcasts. We have the privilege. We have film podcast privilege. There's no doubt about that. Well, I hope that we are in the right. I hope that we are in the right to keep doing it and that we're not just taking up space. this film is to me, it's a delight. It has something to say. It's charming.
Jett Loe (16:06.117)
I think most white men are doing film podcasts now. I think that's...
Jett Loe (16:14.235)
We started early.
Gareth (16:25.116)
And I'm sorry to hear that it didn't get through the jet low force field.
Jett Loe (16:33.22)
think it's the jet low force field and you talked to at the top about it I appreciate what you're saying, Gareth, of course. I just like the character of Mike playing interpreting Neil Diamond. I'm just playing the part of jet low getting excited and having too much coffee. am. That guy's a jerk. You know, it's I I bless your heart. I think
Gareth (16:44.224)
You're interpreting Jet? No, he's a lovely man. He hides his light under a bushel. He hides his light under a bushel. If you have advice for Jet, please get in touch info at thefilmtalk.org.
Jett Loe (16:59.953)
Yes, mean, I'll try to get the message to him. You know, I kind of act as a gatekeeper for Mr. Lowe. You know, when I was serious in my rant about, you know, if this film had come out in the 80s, I think it would have been a hit. If it had starred someone like the great character actor Michael Moriarty, of course, who's so wonderful in films like Q, Quetzalcoatl, The Winged Serpent, or Larry Cohen's The Stuff and Q.
Gareth (17:20.448)
The winged serpent. Is there any better kind of serpent than a winged one?
Jett Loe (17:26.307)
No, I can't recommend Q highly enough. Wonderful, wonderful performance, method performance by Michael Moriarty in that. You talk about lived in, yeah, if the film had been shot on film, right, then that would mean something. And I'm gonna be snarky here, you're talking about the last line being beauty and color. The film has that look that so many films do nowadays that are low budget and low budget comes, all low budget means is we don't have time. If you have...
a big budget, have time to work on things. You have time to work on the color grading. So when films are shot digitally these days, basically the raw image you get out of it, I'm not using raw in the technical sense though, that it is kind of a little bit like when you shoot a digital still camera, but you're getting an image which is basically gray and then you color grade it. And the color, can tell this film is low budget because the color grading is sort of like your first pass. So all the blues look like the same color of blue. All the reds look like the same color of reds. And that's kind of one of those tip-offs to a low budget film.
and it kind of makes movies look like the Warren Beatty classic, near classic Dick Tracy. There's only a certain kind of blue, there's only a certain kind of red. Whereas if you'd shot it on film in the...
Gareth (18:28.884)
Hmm. Whereas, that's obviously that's intentional in Dick Tracy. Yeah, and high high high budget intentional.
Jett Loe (18:34.585)
It's intentional in Dick Tracy, but in low budget films today. Absolutely, they did a huge amount of work. Whereas nowadays, low budget films can look that way because again, you don't have the time to make X number of passes on your color grading to make it a little more finesse. The production design is great. It does look really lived in. You know, that's nice to see. I think that the film would have been a hit in the 80s because back then we didn't have an infinite amount of content. And now we have so much content.
that a film like this, is sort of middle brow, low brow, not low brow, middle brow, kind of low budget, based on a documentary, the reason watching it, you look at it you go, why? If you're not a huge fan of Neil Diamond, you watch it you go, why? Because intentional or not, every scene is something that you've seen before. I disagree with Gareth a little bit on this. mean, it's literally, it is arguably the most...
Gareth (19:18.412)
You
Jett Loe (19:31.801)
And this may be because I don't watch these films anymore because we have an infinite amount of content, but it may be the most formulaic film that I've ever seen. talk about, they don't get a record deal. No, but hold on. They do. They do in the film. They do because they sell. They have a sold out crowd and it's a huge triumph. And you could say, but then something bad happens. But no, it doesn't because then we get a videotape of Hugh Jackman at the end. So we end on a high note. It is the most.
Gareth (19:41.074)
come on, come on!
Gareth (19:58.487)
Hmm.
Jett Loe (19:58.651)
by the numbers storytelling that you can imagine. And maybe that's okay. And that's fine. Like the tuna noodle casserole. But I'm not gonna sit here and say like, it's got deeper. It has the thinness of a saltine cracker that's been shaved off by somebody that doesn't like the salt on it.
Gareth (20:16.786)
No higher recommendation there. I don't know what else there is to say about it other than this is, you know, we agree to disagree. Most of the time we agree to disagree agreeably. I agreeably agree to disagree, but I want to, I want to make us, I want to urge you, dear listener. Jet is, Jet is accomplished. He's, he's
Jett Loe (20:19.077)
Thank you.
Jett Loe (20:28.433)
You know, this is a throwback episode.
Gareth (20:43.168)
He's intelligent, I'd say sometimes even wise. And you're wrong about this movie. This movie has far more depth, nuance and complexity than you're giving it credit for. I have a feeling you may not have watched it in the Cinerama Dome. You may not have allowed the full glory of Song Song Blue to envelop you.
Jett Loe (20:56.283)
Gareth.
Jett Loe (21:03.153)
Dear listeners, here's something. I've been giving Gareth clues this whole episode, little breadcrumbs, waiting for him to get it. I use the word nostalgia repeatedly. Why is that? Because ladies and gentlemen, if you're a long time listener to the show, I've just been performing as Jet Low from the first incarnation of the show in which I did not care for Gareth. And I was always ranting.
Gareth (21:21.356)
haha
Gareth (21:31.104)
What? don't need to, listen, some admissions you don't need to make.
Jett Loe (21:35.595)
And I was always ranting and not taking him seriously. So I know that Gareth loves this movie and homage to nostalgia for the first part of this show up until just now, I was performing an earlier version of myself. The script of this film is witty. It's got wonderful lines like it's Don Ho or No Go. It's got one of my favorite lines ever when Fisher Stevens says, Hey, why don't you talk to your buddy?
Gareth (21:54.871)
no.
Gareth (22:00.94)
you
Jett Loe (22:03.739)
Holly friend, little joke there. This film is funny, it's witty, it's not as good as Tootsie. If you like the work of Neil Diamond, go see it dear listener. It's a good time with the movies. Any last words, Gareth? Before we head out of here on this short, short show.
Gareth (22:17.325)
Hehehehehe
Gareth (22:22.636)
Well, you know, you've ended this episode just like Song-Song Blue has ended with a video of Jet-Lo coming in at the end to raise and elevate our spirits. Is there anything you'd like to say as if it were your final words? If you were recording a video that you wanted people to watch, hopefully a long, time in the future after your death, what are one or two things you'd like people to know?
Jett Loe (22:50.993)
I'd say, you know, to help pay my funeral expenses, don't forget to go to patreon.com slash the film talk where you could sign up for a bonus episode. We just posted one of our original, our original review of Avatar all the way from 2009, got published a couple of days ago and we interviewed the guys from, I think then it was called the slash film cast. Now it's the film cast. Don't forget, you can always contact us info at thefilmtalk.com. You can also subscribe the bonus stuff if you don't use Patreon. If you got one of those Apple devices, you can subscribe through Apple podcasts. Gareth.
I'm sorry. I hope you don't feel like this was a prank I played on you. It was a little bit. I love you dearly with all my heart. I love talking about the movies with you. I cannot wait to talk about I know he promised the listeners about the Bone Temple. I know you may not get a chance to see that but I can record a separate thing talking about that. We've got a whole bunch of more movies to talk about coming up as well as our Oscar show. Thank you so much, Garrett. I love you dearly. Folks, this has been the Film Talk. I'm Jet Low.
Gareth (23:24.17)
Hehehehehe
Gareth (23:47.488)
I'm Gareth Higgins, I love you dearly too. If you want to hear me singing Neil Diamond at karaoke, basically go to any bar where karaoke is happening. And I'm also present because usually I'll do a rendition of Hello Again. Maybe even I am. I said, you can't do Suleyman at karaoke. But I love Neil Diamond unironically, as I also love you and you dear listener.
Jett Loe (24:02.747)
Suleiman. Suleiman.
Gareth (24:16.748)
as well. We'll keep talking.
Jett Loe (24:19.44)
next time.