What made Patrick Stewart such an extraordinary actor? And why, when Star Trek: Nemesis needed an evil clone of Captain Picard, didn't they just cast Patrick Stewart?
In this special tribute, Jett and Gareth remember the great British actor, who died October 28 at age 86, and explore a career that stretched from the Shakespearean stage to the farthest reaches of Shakespeare-tinged science fiction.
Along the way, they discuss I, Claudius, Excalibur, Dune, Green Room, and the lovely, and always watchable, L.A. Story
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Jett Loe (00:02.958)
Okay, Gareth, you are a smart, intuitive, intelligent, full spectrum cinema goer. You know the movies. Before we get into the theme music and the call to action, all that, I've got a question for you. Will you help me with this Patrick Stewart question, Gareth?
Gareth (00:19.704)
It's difficult because if I say yes, that means I'm agreeing to your lovely way of describing me at the start, which could sound a bit self aggrandizing. So if I say yes to the question Okay. Yes.
Jett Loe (00:27.832)
Well the listeners know you.
Here's the okay, here's the thing. I saw Patrick Stewart once in play. He played Sir Sir I don't know if I don't know if he was Sir Patrick at the time. This was 2005. He was doing his one man. Was he a sir? Was he a sir? Okay, I just want to point out we've got a heart out in 20 minutes here. So we gotta we gotta quickly, quickly, quickly move move along. I saw him in the Christmas Carol at the No Coward Theater in the West End, 2005.
Gareth (00:36.02)
Sir Patrick, Sir Patrick, Sir Patrick. A good point. I believe I believe he I believe he was well served by then. He was well served by then, yeah. May I dunno. I don't know.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Gareth (00:57.122)
Do you saw him live? Wow. Wow. Where he played all the parts. He played all the parts.
Jett Loe (01:00.918)
I've seen him live twice. Yes. I well, I didn't know that going in. I just like walked in off the street, and I'm like, it doesn't seem like a big production. There's no props, this black screen. So, dear listeners, Patrick Stewart played more than 30 characters. Incredible. He's an incredible virtuoso. I also saw him later in the actually made the same year, a little bit earlier in David Mammoth's A Life in the Theater. I saw that at the Apollo in London. Anyway, here's my point, Gareth. Fantastic.
Gareth (01:24.936)
I s I saw him in I saw him in that too.
Jett Loe (01:28.696)
Here's my question for you, sir. As a as somebody that knows the movies, knows storytelling. Patrick Stewart played all the parts of Christmas Carol. He can do anything. He played, what is it? Sejanus is an incredible villain in I Claudius. He can play a hero, you can play a villain, right? You can play a good guy, he could play the nemesis, he could play the bad guy. So why, for the love that is of all that is holy, Gareth, when you're making Star Trek colon nemesis, and you've got
Gareth (01:30.082)
Yes.
Yes. Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Gareth (01:41.549)
Mm.
Gareth (01:51.566)
Okay.
Jett Loe (01:58.787)
Captain Picard is the protagonist and the evil villain is Captain Picard's clone. Why for the love of God? And I'm asking the listeners as well, do you not cast Patrick Stewart as his own evil twin? Instead, you get a young Tom Hardy with a fake nose straight out of Orson Wells' infamous nose box. Why did they do that?
Gareth (02:24.824)
This question and more I'm sure we will arrive at no conclusions about in this tribute episode to Sir Patrick Stewart.
Jett Loe (02:35.626)
There's the theme music. my goodness, folks. Thank you so much for listening and welcome back. This is the film talk, the 20-year encounting conversation about movies and what they mean. I'm Jet Lowe.
Gareth (02:49.42)
Gareth Higgins, the conversation never ends. Patrick Stewart. Okay, so everybody will will talk about his presence. Everybody will talk about his signature role, obviously Jean-Luc Picard. But it's not just sentimental affection, it's actually great acting.
Over the course of, and this is rare, it's rare that an actor gets to do this, because he got to play the role, I think, for seven years on television. And then he played the role probably for about a I don't know, was it about a decade in movies? And then he went away for another decade or so and came back with this hat trick of the really what I've seen of it, I haven't seen it all, but really lovely Picard series just a few years ago. he interviewed, I don't know if I don't know if you've seen William Shatner's.
Documentary called I think it's called The Captains, where he travels around the country and actually across the ocean to visit with all the actors who have played a captain of the enterprise. Kate mul mul Mulgrew, and I think is Scott Bakula in there too, and and the others who've played Captains of the Enterprise. You've seen you've seen that film. Have you seen that film, Jet? Right.
Jett Loe (04:02.924)
I have, including someone that d wasn't a captain of the Enterprise, but the commander for Deep Space Deep Space Nine. Well they c he got promoted to captain. Avery Brooks was great and that is the highlight of the captains is Avery Brooks noodling at the piano.
Gareth (04:06.75)
a captain of something else? Captain of our hearts. Right, well.
Gareth (04:16.83)
S sitting at the piano playing. Yes, that's right. I remember we we we have talked about anyway. There's this lovely scene where where Shatner is talking about basically he regrets his career because he didn't get to be the Shakespearean actor that he had set out to be. And and Sir Patrick's response is just wonderful. Like you you did get to be a Shakespearean actor. Star Trek is Shakespearean in the sense that it goes to the full extent of humanity.
And you got to bring people not just superficial pleasure, but a genuine sense, I think for me, of well being. That's the thing that Star Trek wanted to imagine for us. It wanted to give us the option that our stories could evolve in the direction of well being. I think it's easy for people to project father onto Jean Luc Picard because he's a very paternal, although not paternalistic.
Character and then people kind of conflate that with the man himself. Having said that, if you've listened to any in depth interviews with him, he really seems like he was what do you say, a mensch? Is that the word? He was an all round decent guy. An amiable goofball. Right. Yeah.
Jett Loe (05:25.004)
He comes across as an Amy Bulkoof ball. He comes across because this is but this is really interesting you say conflate because in my lifetime I've always thought this ever since Star Trek was around, the next generation, I've never seen that level of I'll use your term her conflation of the actor with the role. And this is nothing against the the Patrick Stewart. It's it's it speaks to the role itself. So when you look at social media, when Patrick Stewart, you know, passed, and everyone is quoting lines.
Gareth (05:42.58)
Uh-huh. With the with the roll, huh. Mm. Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (05:54.475)
Nothing not the Patrick Stewart said, but that Captain Picard said. And that speaks to me like there's for a hunger for some sort of moral authority, right? Because he had such gravitas and such moral authority. And Patrick Stewart embodied it so well. I mean, he did such a wonderful job. And I think a lot of people maybe in the States weren't familiar with that style of acting. So that comes across it has a a weightier impact. Does that make sense?
Gareth (05:58.126)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gareth (06:03.086)
Mm.
Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Well
Gareth (06:16.021)
That's it, yeah, yeah. I mean th that that actually works in in another genre too in a f in a funny way. If you if you see kind of slapstick farce in in the US in in live theater, my experience of that is it goes down much better in the US than it does in the UK now because everybody in the UK grew up with it and is tired of it. but kind of a you know, carry-on style comedies are funnier to US audiences. And I think sort of I is the word stentorian, the stentorian voice
of an English actor adds this gravitas that of course in England is is is just just an an another guy doing a a a a a a job. Having having said that, that's really interesting. I'm trying to think, are there other characters and actors who have been so highly conflated? I guess Anthony Hopkins and and Hannibal Lecter, but that's a one-off a 15-minute performance. And it's not like people want to be around Anthony Hopkins because
Jett Loe (06:46.157)
Yes.
Gareth (07:13.219)
They remind him of Hannibal Lecter. People wanted to be around Patrick Stewart. And people want to be around it's, you know, around Ian McKellen for very similar reasons. I don't know if you heard Sir Patrick's interview with Mark Marin and dear listener, if you get a chance to seek that out, you you you should this is this is important to state. You know, Patrick Stewart is a survivor of childhood violence, childhood abuse within his family, and was a strong advocate.
Jett Loe (07:16.994)
Yes. Yes.
Gareth (07:43.307)
against violence against women and that kind of feels of a piece because Picard certainly would have been two but he didn't just play Jean-Luc Picard. He he he had he had a career other than this, Jet and and I and I and I believe he was in one of your favourite if not is it your favorite film? I know I know you don't think it's the greatest film, but certainly one of your favorite films. You have a you have an original poster for it
Jett Loe (07:58.21)
He's a working actor.
Jett Loe (08:06.466)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (08:11.467)
in your in the office that you're speaking to me from right now. And you get to talk about it as o as much as you want on this show because you're I think you're probably the only person that is a a not a lifelong advocate because the film only came out in nineteen eighty five. But you are you are a strong co con conver you have a strong conversionist impulse when it comes to Toby Hoover's life force.
Jett Loe (08:36.0)
I well you'd have to we'd have to define our terms here when you mean conversionist impulse, which is a great band name, by the way.
Gareth (08:40.109)
You want people to join the church you w you want to join people to join the church of life force.
Jett Loe (08:44.972)
Well, the thing is with Life Force, I think in over the last, I would say eight months, if you look what's happening in social media, I think people have discovered Life Force. There always was a small little coterie of folks who said this film is is something for a variety of reasons. and I'll admit to all loving all of them, but I think people are discovering because it is a a fever dream of a film, but it's because of Life Force that I would argue that we have Captain Picard as we know him, right? Because there's a bunch of different folks. There you are, you're making Star Trek the next generation.
Gareth (08:53.286)
have they?
Yeah.
Gareth (09:10.158)
Mm.
Jett Loe (09:14.798)
You're Gene Roddenberry, you're the great Robert Justman and Bob Justman, trying to figure out who do we cast as Picard. Who can play this you know, a world historical, galaxy historical figure, a man of such incr intense moral gravity? And he I Roddenberry wanted Yafet Koto, which would have been interesting. But you know, would Yeah Fat Kodo would even have been up for that? There was another actor, Stephen Locked, I believe. but this comes down to casting. When you think about it, we gotta have somebody that can do.
Gareth (09:32.655)
Mm.
Jett Loe (09:42.605)
The grinding daily work of TV, getting an experienced working theater actor makes a lot of sense because you've got someone who's used to doing hundreds of performances. Think about the importance of casting here, folks. How important casting would be in a film, in a TV show like Friends, for instance, where they all work together perfectly. And if one didn't work, it wouldn't work at all. In Patrick Stewart, I think we get real insight. Where can we find a guy that is in good shape, is up for the grind of TV?
Gareth (09:48.633)
Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (10:10.868)
And can do absolute genre ridiculousness with a straight face. And that's what Patrick Stewart's filmography would would have told the casting director at this point, right? Because he did Excalibur, which is, I mean, I love Excalibur, but it is, it is something. It's a big slice of cheese, and I love it. Excalibur, Dune, Patrick Stewart was also in Dune. And then in Life Force, you have this a character who's, you know, very, very straight. He's the administrator for a mental hospital.
Gareth (10:27.981)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dune.
Jett Loe (10:41.078)
Or as Life Force would say, a house for the criminally insane, and then there'd be a lightning sound effect. But then he has to be transformed, not in makeup, but just just through acting, the miracle of acting, into 18-year-old Matilda May space vampire girl. And he does that, right? And he does it with complete conviction. So if as a casting director, you go, Well, this is the guy, he can do absolute ridiculousness completely straight. He can sell anything.
Gareth (10:45.581)
Ha ha
Gareth (11:04.397)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (11:10.38)
And that's at the end of the day, I think, probably why they cast him, right? Because he could do that. He was in Excalibur, he could do Dune, he can do the genre ridiculousness. And if you do watch the clips, you know, of his performance in Star Trek The Next Generation, particularly you know there's a whole series of you know f fame at favorite Picard moments. But you what he can do with just the the line readings, the stentorian line readings he's saying, you're talking about, you know, even ordering a you know a cup of tea, he completely sells it.
it almost feels like it's muscle memory. And that's not taking anything, you know, from him. He's a you know, a wonderful, wonderful actor. He'll he'll be missed.
Gareth (11:46.711)
You've you've you know I've watched the first ten minutes of Life Force, I have to confess I've not seen any more than that. I will actually you know, dear dear listener, you you know, long term listener out there will be potentially thrilled to know that Jet and I are going to be in the same space time continuum in just a matter of days from now. I mean, at least that's the plan. And we do I think you've agreed that we are gonna watch a movie together when when when when we're in the same
Jett Loe (11:48.246)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (12:07.17)
Yes.
Gareth (12:16.889)
Place, yes. Yes. If there
Jett Loe (12:17.772)
Yes. Yes. We've only we've only ev ever since I moved away from Belfast back in the day in Northern Ireland, north of Ireland, we've only seen each other a handful of times.
Gareth (12:23.15)
Yes.
Gareth (12:27.361)
Yes. So if there isn't anything on a local theater that we want to see, let's let's watch Life Force. I'll watch Life Force with you. I know you do. I know you do. okay. let's just quickly mention some other films that Patrick Stewart was in that you might want to see. The Doctor and the Devils with Timothy Dalton, LA Story, which I is a genuinely magical film. He plays a a a Nazi
Jett Loe (12:34.294)
I do have a Blu-ray four K.
Gareth (12:56.803)
Mater D all the Star Trek movies, of course. Never saw conspiracy theory, but it's a Richard Donner film. Have you seen Conspiracy Theory?
Jett Loe (13:05.654)
Yeah, it's it's what you want. It's the meat and potatoes Richard Donner film that you want to see. That's the one with Mel Gibson. It is exactly what you think it's gonna be. Richard Donner directs Mel Gibson and Patrick Stewart and it's w worth watching.
Gareth (13:09.429)
It is but it's what okay, great.
Gareth (13:16.181)
Okay. All right. He's he's a voice in the Prince of Egypt, which is a which is a actually quite an interesting movie. Anything else you want to encourage people to s to see? Other I've I've one last Patrick Stewart film recommendation that has nothing to do with Star Trek at all. But if you have anything else
Jett Loe (13:20.098)
Ha ha ha
Jett Loe (13:34.037)
you know, I didn't, I wasn't a huge fan. A lot of people talk about Green Room. I I love the film Green Room. It's a very, very difficult watch, dear listeners. So if you were not in the mood for feeling bad about humanity in general, do not watch Green Room. He does play, he talked to about Nazi, plays plays a bad guy there. I wasn't there for his performance when I saw it when I came out, but I'm gonna give it another go because he is, he is such a
a fantastic technician, I'm willing to give it a another go. And now that I think about it, not a month has passed. What I don't think about is line reading about getting some helpers that have only red laces, which if you've seen Green Room, you'll understand. but yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna rewatch Green Room.
Gareth (14:19.553)
All right, all right. Well as as as you know, I have not seen Green. yes. Not my not my cup of tea.
Jett Loe (14:23.916)
No, you don't you don't see it. 'Cause you're you're it's not a film that's gonna it's not gonna restore not g it's not gonna restore your faith in humanity.
Gareth (14:31.317)
Okay. one that might is this lovely film, very little scene called Match from twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen. Three Hander with with Patrick Stewart, Carla Gugino and Matthew Lillard. Lovely theatrical, great actors talking in a room. Really delicious. It's called Match.
Jett Loe (14:54.082)
We call that drama.
Gareth (14:56.631)
Is that what it's called? Is that what we're doing? Is that what we're doing?
Jett Loe (15:00.694)
You know, let's not put a label. Let's let's not ruin it by naming it. If
Gareth (15:03.983)
I mean twenty twenty years. Are we the Mahabharata of film podcasts? If Peter Brooke was still alive, could do you think he do you think he do you think he could do an o he could do he could do like a a decades long audio drama of the film talk?
Jett Loe (15:10.84)
That's a wow, that's a deep that's a that's a deep cut.
Jett Loe (15:19.692)
We're the seven up of film podcasts. I think that's what I think that's what we've got to do. You know, we've been doing this so so long and and I'm so glad that you're coming by this weekend to help celebrate 20 years of doing this show. Folks, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. I can't hear you, but I know you're out there. Don't forget, you can listen to all of our past episodes at thefilmtalk.net. That's the film talk.net. Thank you for talking with me, even if it's just for a minute, Gareth, reminiscing about the great
Gareth (15:22.401)
Gareth (15:48.985)
it's good to good to be able to talk about Pat Patrick Stewart who's who's I'll s we'll it'll be for the third time we'll say Stentorian in this show. I think that's the f the first time that word has been used in 20 years, and we've said it three times in one episode. Stentorian voice of Sir Patrick Stewart. What would you what do you I wouldn't mind turning into Patrick Stewart? Is that what happens if you say it three times a mirror?
Jett Loe (15:50.402)
Patrick Stewart.
Jett Loe (16:05.944)
Don't say that looking in a mirror three times, 'cause then then no, then Brian Brian Bles Brian Blessed will come out.
Jett Loe (16:19.992)
Folks, thank you so much for listening. I've been Jetlow.
Gareth (16:22.999)
I've been Gareth Higgins. We'll keep talking.
Jett Loe (16:25.996)
Next time. That was fun. Thank you, sir.