Natchez dismantles comforting myths about the American South while asking a larger question: what happens when culture lets us float free of place, history, and consequence? Gareth calls it an early film-of-the-year contender; Jett recommends it without reservation. Before we act, the episode argues, we first have to see.
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Jett Loe (00:31.15)
All right, Gareth, before we get into it, like the theme music and the credits and the premise of the show and all this business, I gotta ask one question. You and I were talking right now, right? We're talking, we're online. We're not in the same physical space. Where are we right now at this moment? You and I, where is this conversation taking place? It's it's in the it's in the ether, it's online. It's it's we're not rooted anywhere. We're
Gareth (00:37.683)
Mm-hmm.
We are. Yes.
Gareth (00:47.4)
We're we're it in the ether.
Jett Loe (00:56.53)
Th where are you when you doom scroll, right? When you're on the internet, you're nowhere. My point here, Gareth, with this movie is that you're cut off from consequence, one might think, because we're in this nowhere void. There's nothing rooting us to a place like a town like Nachez. And what a great name for movie Nachez. It tells you this movie's about Nachez. We're in a place, Nachez. So of course, for some bizarre reason, PBS changed the name of this brilliant film to what seems to be like an AI, like it's AI keyword system.
So when people search for like, hey, what's what's with the Southern Charm? Is that all a lie? Right away, boom, up comes this movie exposing. Like, you won't believe it's a takedown. Destroyed. The movie destroys Southern Charm. Exposing the myth of Southern Charm. The movie's called Nachez, folks. Let's get into it.
Jett Loe (01:47.096)
Come out of the theme music and you just do your Gareth Higgins thing that you do so well. Ketamine.
Gareth (01:50.556)
All right.
Jett Loe (01:57.036)
I love ya. Very much, very deeply.
Gareth (01:58.13)
I love you too. So I'm coming out of the theme music, not not the trail not not the montage. Okay, okay. Yes, yes, yes, indeed. Well okay. Well hello dear listener. This is the film talk, as Jet always says, one big conversation about the what do you call it? The art and meaning of movie? The craft and meaning of movies? The movie, the meaning.
Jett Loe (02:05.038)
Sure. No, this is the theme music, yeah. Just introduce do us ourselves the show and then what we're gonna talk about.
Jett Loe (02:23.712)
It could be the mi could be the the art and meaning of movies, sure.
Gareth (02:26.43)
The art and meaning of movies. I've I've I've been on every episode and thank you for reminding me what you say. I'm Gareth Hickens.
Jett Loe (02:35.094)
I'm Jet Lowe.
Gareth (02:37.272)
we're gonna talk this week about a film called Natchez which Jet already mentioned has been retitled by PBS I think they do this actually from time to time with with documentaries big b because it's presumably their research shows it'll get more of an an audience and that's fine having said that if this film which was released to theaters as Natchez I'll always think of it as Natchez that kind of adds a bit of gravity to it it's a
Jett Loe (03:05.505)
Yes.
Gareth (03:06.15)
It's a documentary, but but I I want to revisit that word in in a minute because it really is not a descriptive enough term to describe what this is. Anyway, it's a film directed by Susanna Herbert and it follows folks who live in Natchez, Mississippi, some of whom are responsible for what appears to be an annual tour of homes in which
Frankly, Confederate history is sanitized and people talk about silverware and service and service is a euphemism. and there's some folks doing those tours and then there's a guy who's doing his own tour, which is not a sanitized version of history. He's a a a black pastor called Tracy. There's another Tracy in the the film, a a white woman
Who we see wearing the hoop dress, she's kind of a volunteer on what they what I believe they call pilgrimage tours. And she says she never felt fully beautiful until she put on the hoop dress. You know that you know what the hoop dress is, Jet. It's what Scarlett O'Hara or in what is still the highest grossing, the highest grossing film adjusted for inflation of all time, Gone with the Wind.
Jett Loe (04:19.982)
Yes.
Carol Burnett.
Gareth (04:30.768)
Something that really needs to be contended with. Anyway, this film is the is the transcendence, the the anti-gone with the wind. This film is, you you coined a phrase a long time ago, you called it crafted nonfiction, because this word documentary, I mean that could mean a history channel biopic of a celebrity, or a piece of agit prop like Michael Moore did, or the exquisite meditative experience of Koen Iscatsi. Or a film like this, which is
an essay, I I it you wouldn't call it a polemic because at no point does it dictate it's one of the most unobtrusively observational films of its kind. It just lets people speak for themselves. And I'm sure you're you're gonna talk about one of those people in particular who, you know, the the the revelation of his horrendous bigoted views comes
Toward the end of the film, it's n it's not like you couldn't have predicted it. And at the same time, he's portrayed sympathetically because of some physical limitations he's experiencing. So one of the things I like the most about this film is it refuses to demonize anybody. It absolutely demonizes particular beliefs. but what it champions more is the true honoring of the the past, particularly in in the form of I think her name is Deborah, the first African-American woman to join a garden club in Natchez.
Who owns a home that had been lived in and built by enslaved persons. And she says something, I'm not going to give it away, toward the end of the film, that is my cinematic moment of the year thus far. And it and is also the place where the film should have ended. it goes for about another ten. I think everything in the film belongs in the film. I just think the last twelve minutes should have preceded the the moment when when Deborah talks about the bricks of of the building that she
Jett Loe (06:12.53)
wow.
Jett Loe (06:16.68)
hot take.
Gareth (06:29.128)
Listen. Anyway, there's a lot more to say. this is this is my f this is my film of the year so far. It's it's deeply worthwhile. It's it's it's so imaginatively photographed and and edited and it it's a like it's a work of of advocating for human rights and for telling the truth.
Jett Loe (06:30.592)
Every everybody's a critic.
Jett Loe (06:41.324)
yes.
Jett Loe (06:52.578)
Got a clip here. You know, Gareth talking about listen, sometimes it may you know, Dickens, people love Dickens, but let's be honest, folks. Dickens was paid by the word. And sometimes I feel that about Gareth, but he's not getting paid. I mean, very little. He's got a little. He's got a little taste. He's wetting his beak a little bit. But you know, you well, a little Well it's damp. There might be some there might be some moistness. But
Gareth (06:55.324)
I forgot we hadn't had the clip yet.
Gareth (07:01.268)
Yeah. Well, no, he's not.
Am I? Hold on, my beak's not wet.
Is
I think you're confusing my beak with somebody else's beak.
Jett Loe (07:22.572)
Well, that's been known to happen when the lights are off, my friend. Listen, you know, we got a clip here, but you're right. D crafted nonfiction or and when you shoot enough stuff, you got a documentary, you shoot for days. I think they shot 75 days on this picture, on this show. You can craft it any way you want. And and one of the great things about this film, you know, some of the best documentaries is let people speak for themselves and then they're able to put that into a narrative structure. So this is almost structured like a almost like a thriller. So there's like some twists and turns. It's
Gareth (07:24.016)
It
Jett Loe (07:51.158)
It is you could say, well, we see these things coming, but it you have enough footage to craft something that feels like a narrative. And of course the reason why narratives exist is because they're engaging, because they pull you in. Narratives serve that purpose, right? Around the campfire. How do you find the where's the fresh water? Well, you cr you know, we construct a narrative, say, look for this stone and do this, and you can make it more engaging using a variety of devices. And I think, you know, everything is kind of an outgrowth of that is my opinion. So with that in mind, here's a clip, here's a little mini montage of some of the characters. They are real people.
That we see in the film, Natchez. Let's listen in.
Jett Loe (08:26.862)
Okay, we can come onto that if there's anything you want to say and then we can have a conversation.
Gareth (08:29.609)
No, no, you you you go for it.
Jett Loe (08:34.556)
let's see.
Jett Loe (08:38.22)
You know, Gareth, this is a this is a brilliant film. And I'm glad that people you can watch it on YouTube, maybe do a search for Natchez or do a search for how they've retitled it, Exposing the Myth of Southern Charm. Gareth, this film for me is like it's like watching a you can see this in movies like Hunt for Red October or whatever, other submarine pictures, maybe Dust Boat, in which you see the submarine slowly submerged beneath the waters. And watching this film, it's only like ninety minutes, it's like an hour twenty-six, something like that. Great, great length for a documentary.
Gareth (08:43.135)
Exactly.
Jett Loe (09:06.88)
Is you're just watching the submarine slowly go down and you know it's gonna go down deeper and deeper and deeper until it gets really deep in those depths where you get things get really submersed. You know, it's slow and then it's fast, like bankruptcy, right? Like the famous comment about bankruptcy. And we watch this film with almost a sense of intense dread, which is balanced by the goodness of people. We have this character, this pastor, this reverend also named Tracy, and this person is doing genuine work. There's another character.
Gareth (09:34.964)
Is that
Jett Loe (09:36.128)
as well, who's been battling for recognition for the the sites where slaves were sold. Displaced Natchez is where more slaves were sold than anywhere in the United States, right? It's there's a big hub. And now it's just, you know, where they were sold is just right outside of a muffler shop, which is a big part of the movie. The the film submerses you and you know you're going deep into the darkness and you want to be saved, I think, like, you know, from drowning at some level. And it shows the possibility of of
Of action, meaning first we have to witness, Gareth. I think before we act, we must see. Before we act, we must see. And this film just puts it out there, letting people speak for themselves. Also, some people might take away a little watch this, they may have a a different view. They may say, Wow, this tells me never participate in a documentary. Because once you're once you're recorded, they can they can people can cut and and shape it any way you want. So I'm sure there's been some reaction.
by some of the folks that are in this in this film to being in the in this motion picture. But before we act, we must see. And Gareth th this movie's being released on a wide platform. I think by time we're recording, it's already been seen 400,000 times on YouTube. This is being released at a time in which the Voting Rights Act in the United States has been eviscerated and there's a a movement that is seems to be unstoppably successful right now. We'll see what happens come election time.
to remove black representation in the American South on a federal level. That's what's happening. And the Voting Rights Act is actually mentioned in this movie as this amazing achievement to try to counterbalance the systemic racism in the United States. And now we're in a position in the United States in which there's been, I would even call it black backs backsliding. It's almost like a a mask being being ripped off and people are gleefully sh exposing themselves or
For who they are, which is a a people that does not want black people to have any political or economic power in the United States. Does that make sense?
Jett Loe (11:40.334)
Does that make sense? Am I making any sense here? Am I just rambling?
Gareth (11:42.293)
Well, I mean of course it it doesn't make sense at all. It's the it's the it's
Jett Loe (11:46.466)
We could just change the name of the show to musings. Musings. Musings Movie Musings. Hashtag musing about movies.
Gareth (11:56.906)
The y I mean it is a horrendous thing that's unfolding and at the same time this this this film is a manifestation of the other thing, the better thing. You know, the fact that this film exists is is
It's illustrative of there are two stories that are I don't like battle metaphors because they're not always helpful, but maybe battle is the only thing we can talk about here. Two stories battling with each other, the separatist, nationalist, tribalist story, and the expansive, inclusive, humane story. And I guess I've never because of because of where I grew up
Where we really saw people actually killing each other over their perceptions of each other's political beliefs.
Jett Loe (12:52.236)
folks that are new to the show, you grew up in was it Southern California? Is that where? okay.
Gareth (12:55.707)
I grew up in the in the north of Ireland and you know, ceasefires when I was at nineteen years old got to witness and to some to some degree, you know, be involved in in in peace building. The idea that telling the truth about the past is somehow a threat to the reality of you in the present
really just belies the fact that what we've what we've inculcated regarding the meaning of reality, the meaning of a life, the perp the purpose of a life, the value of a life, is just bullshit. Like what the what the culture teaches about what a person is and what a life is for is so often simply self-oriented emptiness. And watching Natchez, I I I wanted to ask some of those people, like
What do you think would happen to you if you actually faced the truth about where your house came from? About who built your house? What what what is it you're afraid of happening to you? Of course, we know people, people are scared of losing the things they hold most dear. I I I don't say this from any kind of morally superior place. It's just because I I grew up where I grew up and I saw people change. We have to change the meaning of what we should hold most dear.
Like the people eviscerating the the Voting Rights Act are ultimately defeating themselves because they they intend and they want to make a society in which nobody would belong, actually. Nobody would belong because the the s the circle of what's a what's ex what what gets you entree into the community would just get narrower and narrower and narrower. And I don't understand why people want to live that way. And and if that answer's too long, I'll you asked me, so
Jett Loe (14:42.03)
And that's that's sort of no. I because I want to know. Well, we sort of feel like, you know, in popular culture we see that represented in economic culture, we see that represented with Elon Musk and folks like that. Like how much money can you have and what you're just isolating yourself more and more. And then in popular culture, there's been a critique of that, which is I think a lot of people have been very surprised, considering how long it takes things to get produced, right? So there's a show that just came out, season finale or series finale. The shows I think been on what?
Gareth (14:57.393)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gareth (15:06.356)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (15:11.48)
four or five years. And they must have shot this last season, you know, sometime in the last year, but not in the last few months, 'cause they got post production and everything. And that's a show called The Boys. And regardless of how you feel about it's
decisions that it's making in terms of how to create engagement, right? So we're gonna do something that's really scatological, it's very gory show, it's very violent. And that's sort of like the sugar to make the medicine go down because it's explicitly anti-fascist. And there's a character, one of the main characters in the show called Homelander, and he is that character who is just by proclaiming himself like a living god, he is reducing more and more of himself to just being himself. And there's speculation before you know the last episode, I'm not gonna spoil anything, but like, well, maybe he'll win and then.
Gareth (15:29.887)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Gareth (15:33.737)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Gareth (15:43.989)
Mm.
Jett Loe (15:53.6)
there'll be nobody left on earth and it'll just be him. It'll just be alone. It's just narrowing and narrowing and narrowing. And that's a very explicit choice. And I think that's what we're seeing with these billionaires whose lives get smaller and smaller and smaller. And they seem, based upon what they're saying in public, and this is like never appear on a documentary, they seem to be unaware or do not care, but they really do seem to be unaware h how French revolutionary they're starting to sound. Like how much like people are going to start storming the the battlements. I don't know. It's like you talk about one battle after
Gareth (16:09.493)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (16:16.981)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (16:20.935)
Well and if they w if they wanna be th you know I I I don't mean this in a cynical way, but one way to become popular is to share what you've got with people who need it. You know you know, like like yeah, yeah, no matter no matter whether you're whether wha whether you're you're you're among the bi the billionaires who listen to this show or more more of the the what's the word? Pro did they say proletariat? Are we are are we proletariat podcasters?
Jett Loe (16:23.214)
One battle after another.
Jett Loe (16:32.202)
that's an idea. That's something we should all learn at a young age, like at five. At five, share your toys. Gotta share your toys.
Jett Loe (16:52.174)
Proletariat, you know, that's an interesting word. It feels very old fashioned, doesn't it? Maybe we should bring it I feel like when you say proletariat, I feel like I'm watching Fritz Long's Metropolis, all all of a sudden, you know.
Gareth (16:55.827)
Yes.
Gareth (17:01.075)
yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of s a lot of sort of a lot of monorails. I could ride around Metropolis all day long in a monorail, but we're still we're not here to talk about that. We yes. Yes, yeah, pretty good. Did could you think we could get them f could we get them on the show? From Metropolis. A hundred year old film. Say what? There could be one left. Yes. Yeah. So
Jett Loe (17:09.644)
The city looks great. Great model work by those guys. Kudos.
Jett Loe (17:17.078)
The model makers from Metropolis. There could be one guy left. There there could be one guy left. He's wizened. He's very tiny.
Gareth (17:30.259)
Let's let's talk a bit more about about Natchez. I'm wondering what's your feeling about this idea that I've already mentioned? Susannah Herbert.
doesn't allow any of the characters to be demonized, with the potential exception of one person who you don't really see much to to empathize with, that the the the muffler guy. you mean I guess earlier there's a degree you you you could have some empathy for him when he when when he says I've run this business all my life and you know they made me a lowball offer. But this is different to to to David who shows people around his house, has Parkinson's his voice is
Jett Loe (17:55.884)
Muffler guy.
Gareth (18:14.743)
Is d diminishing. And so there's this humane connection with him. And there's also he's kind of a a camp comedian. But there's also something even probably from the very first scene where where you see there's an edge with this guy that doesn't feel healthy. And then that comes into like full full-blown racist epithets.
At the end of the film. And I still feel like Herbert is not trying to get us to make him our enemy. Like for me as a white person, I'm watching him and I'm feeling embarrassed and I'm feeling like I want to ask myself, okay, do I ever indulge in these kinds of behaviors? But he's not he's not demonized, which I think would have made the documentary more superficial.
Jett Loe (18:37.684)
Yeah, when it it
Jett Loe (18:57.311)
Well
It doesn't it doesn't need to do that. You could even argue that sometimes the score is intrusive. We don't necessarily need there's whether there's a music cue that comes in after the muffler man says something to the the reverend and it has it and has a huge effect on him and you know, and then we have the music. We don't necessarily need that. But these are filmic techniques. They by having the muffler man and David both reveal themselves because they are both and you could say the muffler man is sympathetic, 'cause like, yeah, this is my my business the whole time and you know, maybe in the future they could do something. But you're
Gareth (19:11.657)
Yeah, yeah.
Jett Loe (19:30.4)
You're doing high and low in terms of h low working class and then the the aristocracy, right? Because David obviously very wealthy, his family has a has a mansion next to the governor's mansion in Arkansas. So it's showing you the the the the sp the spectrum of that, that that it's throughout the whole culture, even for the working man all the way, small business owner, all the way to the aristocracy are embedded in that in that structure. It doesn't need to demonize because again, it has, as you said, letting people speak for
Gareth (19:56.916)
Yeah.
Jett Loe (19:58.06)
themselves. And when the muffler man says something at the end like that, I mean that is so egregious. it's shocking. And I'm gonna say it's the use you it's the well, it's
Gareth (20:02.174)
Yeah.
Gareth (20:05.693)
Yeah, to the point where like when what sorry.
Jett Loe (20:08.78)
That's all right. It's the use of the use he calls a grown man a black man, he calls him boy. And this man is born nineteen sixty four, right? So like like and and that is so egregious and and hateful. And he and the muffler man knows exactly what he's doing, but then so does David. They're both adults. They have to take responsibilities, you know, for their actions. Again, folks, think twice before appearing in a documentary. Unless I guess you feel you're blameless, then you don't you have no shame because you know, what you're saying is right and good and pure.
and white, then yeah, then you have no problem with with saying these things, right?
Gareth (20:44.443)
Natchez is on YouTube. I hope you'll watch it and glad we have the chance to. Jet, do we have time for me to to talk about something else that I saw on YouTube?
Jett Loe (20:49.762)
You should yeah, it's great. Good movie.
Jett Loe (20:58.356)
We always have time for you, sir. I always do.
Gareth (21:01.279)
Thank you. Thank you. So there's this guy called Thomas Flight, young young kinda
cultural commentator and he's made a video essay that's I around an hour long called Why the Movies Don't Feel the Same Anymore. And and and you should watch it. It's it's one of the smartest, sharpest analyses of of what has changed. and I wanna ask you just your thought because you've watched more movies than most people on the planet.
Jett Loe (21:17.218)
Okay.
Gareth (21:32.122)
And you've had the experience that we you know we're we're we're close to the same age. We grew up at what now turns out to be the tail end, maybe the la the last third of when cinema and movie going had real cultural purchase and where a movie could could really contribute something to to the culture.
What think's really interesting about Thomas Flight is he's he's a good deal younger than us, and so he's nostalgic for a time that he that he presumably did not experience as an individual. That gives me a bit of hope because it does mean that people who never knew what it was like to have scarcity with with cinema. You know, a a movie would come, particularly if it was a s a smaller film, when I was growing up in Belfast, it would come to Belfast for a week, and there there was certainly a period where it might not even ever show up on home.
video so you had to see it there that and then movie theaters tended to be designed with the with the the display of the film in mind rather than how many seats you can squeeze into the room and there's this ext this the the way in which television has become more like movies in terms of technique although I don't r r sometimes but r but not that often the depth of heart that you could get in
a you know, a Bergman film or a Kurosawa film or a Tarkovsky film. And the last thing, the last big difference between w why movies and and
my movie going today, what changed about movie going from when we were younger is that there's no expectation that people are actually gonna pay attention to the film. As you know, Netflix is now has a pric there's a Netflix in house shooting style and script style which will constantly remind audience members what's going on in the thing because they're expecting people to be watching on a second screen. So lots of stuff in there about about why movie going changed. what do you think
Jett Loe (23:30.25)
It Yes. Yeah.
Gareth (23:35.336)
about the idea that that cinema is basically dying, that it will n it what it was when we were younger can never come back, and that
the best thing we could do in that regard would be great we to be grateful that we had those experiences and support independent theaters that try to screen films looking their best and sounding their best and understands that the history of cinema is worth curating and worth re-watching. Anyway, I it this this piece made me think I'm interested in your thoughts about
What's really happening to cinema? Comprehensively, please.
Jett Loe (24:15.182)
Well, I mean, yeah, yeah, comprehensibly. Look, we grew up in a time in which movies were a primary part of w Western culture. and what we missed for the most part was when novels were a primary part of of of Western culture, where people knew Norman Mailer, you know, or you know, the guy that wrote Portnoy's Complaint, or you know, knew who Philip Roth was.
Gareth (24:32.019)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gareth (24:39.412)
Yeah.
Jett Loe (24:45.47)
you know, or Philip K. Dick for that matter. and the novel's primacy has gone gone away. The thing of the movies is is an unusual case because it's not just the movie itself that was that that contained the experience. It was going to a movie theater in which movie theaters were packed.
Gareth (25:03.093)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (25:03.34)
Because you didn't have streaming, you didn't have DVDs, VHS, and all that kind of stuff. And no, I mean I grew up in a VHS era, but it was still different. It took a year for two years for ET to come out, for instance, on tape, whatever it was. So you're used to going, you didn't have access to, you know, media on demand, and you're used to going to a theater at least once a week, if not more, in which the the crowds were packed. And so you had a communal experience. So that communal ex the communal experience is something that is you know, the loss of that is something that has made me, you know, melancholy over the years as I realized it was happening. As I'd go to see some big movie and I'm
Gareth (25:06.111)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (25:33.276)
Like there's only two people in the theater, you know. And you're like, what? It's a very, very different experience. So I I I'm with you with the idea of, you know, have those small independent theaters that show older films as well as new ones, primacy on the screening experience. Again, when we grew up, movies would have be masked off, meaning that there was curtains that would mask off the aspect ratio of the cinema, so it would be dark. It wouldn't just be like projected TV as Tarantino has said it, where have this gray bar around the thing, which just doesn't even make it like a movie at all. I saw 2001.
Gareth (25:56.073)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jett Loe (26:03.16)
one at one of these kind of you know, those places where you get the beer and they bring you food. And it was like just watching, you know, somebody's D V D copy at home and it's much better watching it, you know, for me at home. So but you can certainly see the importance of
Gareth (26:07.412)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (26:10.986)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (26:16.884)
smaller independent cinemas that show that show good films where they where they care, you know, in in areas where that's where that's viable. But no, it's not coming back. It's never going to be what it was. And things always change and there is a loss there. It doesn't mean that great work's not being made. I mean look at sinners in one battle after another and train dreams, right? These are these are extraordinary. These are great movies. As good as movies have have ever been, they're all very, very different. So good work is still being made. And you see that with something like Nachez to bring it back to that is that for all the
Gareth (26:39.389)
What?
Jett Loe (26:46.778)
AI slop and for all this terrible just junk that's out there, these the new technology does allow someone to go and spend, you know, 75 days shooting, and it's going to cost less. It's going to be less intensive than a documentary in the old days on film like Harlan, you know, the great documentaries of the past, like by Frederick Wiseman or, you Harlan County, USA, what what have you. I don't know if I'm answering any questions. I haven't seen this hour-long video essay that you're talking about on YouTube. I look forward to seeing it.
Movies do matter because seeing is necessary for action, I think. And documentaries like Natchez are are are valuable now more than ever. In films like Sinners
Gareth (27:26.356)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (27:27.778)
communal and Sooners is a is constructed as a communal experience, right? This is is made by a guy who, you know, went to movies of the old Grand Lake Theater like I did in the Bay Area, which would have a packed crowd. There was always the greatest crowds at the Grand Lake Theater in Oakland. I never forget when I saw the blob there in the 80s. Incredible, the remake. The one by the director of the mask. Was it Chuck Russell? Something like that. Maybe not Chuck Russell, but so movies movies still matter. They're gonna go into a different form. Now I don't know if the film talk matters. I'm glad to talk to you.
Gareth (27:40.664)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (27:47.924)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (27:57.609)
matters to me.
Jett Loe (27:58.848)
It matters it matters to me and I appreciate all the folks who have listened for the decades we've been doing this show.
Gareth (28:04.521)
I I yeah, absolutely. And I I think that like whether or not I mean, of course, like movie going is not coming back the w the way it was
when when we were younger and that's fine. Like you you've mentioned before opera used to be an elitist aristocratic activity. or well here's the thing, it like it it it it has been until recently an aristocratic elitist activity. But prior to that it was a populist ac activity. You may remember in the flashback scenes in
Jett Loe (28:24.63)
Yeah. I mean that's the first thing that comes to mind is yeah.
Jett Loe (28:35.704)
Mm. Yeah.
Gareth (28:39.775)
The Godfather Part Two. we see these, you know, poor people in Little Little going to the opera. And then it became an elitist activity. And now, you can watch the Metropolitan Opera in your local movie theater for less than the price of a three R Manhattan parking spot. So there's something that
Even 20 years ago was utterly unpredictable that movie theaters were going to be a place that would turn opera once again into a populist activity. but the scarcity piece, the fact that we're most of us are just switching from one screen to another, I really do think that there's something. I mean it's not just me that thinks this, it is neuroscientifically attested to that celluloid projection affects the brain differently.
Jett Loe (29:28.15)
I I'm gonna stop that right hold on, hold on there, RFK junior. What is this? It's neuro what now? What are these buzzwords? That sounds like you're selling a supplement.
Gareth (29:32.084)
What? Neuro it neuroscientifically attested too. Neuroscientifically attested too. Am I hypnotizing you? watching celluloid projection has a different effect on the br on on the brain than watching digital projection. It's just like like you've said, no matter the size of the screen, it just feels like watching television.
Jett Loe (29:42.05)
Yes.
Gareth (29:53.628)
in in public. But I'm not gonna mope about that. You know, it is just one of those things that has changed over time and just like vinyl has come back, there will hopefully always be places that will do archive screenings or will do the do the most that they can to display films looking as good and sounding as good as they as as is possible.
Jett Loe (30:18.936)
Well, this goes to like us recommending nachces. It was something you and I have been talking b back and forth the last few months about this show. It's like in the old days when we did the film talk, we would review like everything that came out. And now I sort of because of the infinite amount of content and so many screens, I sort of feel like we sort of were sort of slowly submerging like the submarine in Dust Boat and Nachez into maybe the form should just be like once a week. We just recommend here's just watch this. Just watch this one thing this week. Watch this thing.
Gareth (30:22.131)
Yeah.
Gareth (30:36.979)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (30:44.809)
watch just watch na just just watch nach chips. Just watch nach.
Jett Loe (30:48.162)
Here's this thing. Yeah, watch notcha. So that's what we're saying, dear listeners. Watch this thing. We could change the title of the show to the film talk colon Watch This Thing. This is a thing that you should see. Watch it. And then listen to us talk about it.
Gareth (30:58.181)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (31:02.419)
Well well what a beautiful idea. I hope we get the chance to t to do that. but in the meantime, dear listener, you'll find Natchez on on YouTube listed as as exposing the myth of southern charm. And you will find Thomas Flight's wonderful video essay, Why the Movies Don't Feel the Same Anymore, at Thomas Flight's YouTube channel, which I imagine is easy to find as well. There's ways of finding these things, I believe.
Jett Loe (31:10.414)
Mm.
Jett Loe (31:31.842)
Thanks for listening, folks. You know, if you do want the bonus episodes, I just released one the other day on Zodiac because I had an interesting Zodiac experience in San Francisco. We've got those decades of shows to, you know, in our archives we release. So you can always go to patreon.com slash the film talk and or on Facebook at Facebook.com slash the film talk. And you can always email us probably. Email us. Info at the filmtalk.org. Well, thanks for this conversation. This has been a very loose, this has been almost a this is a conversation you and I would have who were just talking. We just happen to be recording it.
and putting it out into the world, which maybe is the purest form of what we've ever done.
Folks, thank you so much for listening. I feel like I've learned something today, have I?
Gareth (32:15.943)
Only time can tell. I've enjoyed the conversation though. I've been Gareth. No no I'm not doing that bit yet. I've enjoyed the conversation though.
Jett Loe (32:19.626)
What is it what is the you know you know it's I I'm I'm reminded of what is it, Faulkner? The past is never dead. This n it's not it's never dead, it's not even past. This show isn't over, it hasn't even begun. We're just getting started, dear listeners. Watch this thing. Wait for the reboot.
Gareth (32:29.011)
never passed. It's just Yes, that's right.
Jett Loe (32:45.592)
Gareth is overcome.
Gareth (32:50.439)
It's good to be overcome on a Monday afternoon. I've been Gareth Higgins. And we'll keep talking.
Jett Loe (32:54.188)
I've been Jet Loe.
Next time.