Sophy Romvari’s Blue Heron opens a conversation about memory, damaged families, grief, and the profound human need to be seen accurately. Jett and Gareth also consider why New Yorker critic Richard Brody remains such a vital voice—and why criticism is at its best when it risks having a point of view.
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Jett Loe (00:49.383)
You know, Gareth, we don't normally talk about other film critics on the show. everyone's got something to say. Lord knows I do, and of course you do with your beautiful Eurish Brogue. But I do want to single out Richard Brody in the New Yorker, who wrote a lovely piece, dear listeners, on the new film, beautiful new film, Blue Heron. Richard Brody wrote, The point of cinematic realism is the inner life, and the miracle of movies is their power to portray.
Subjectivity. Though few few filmmakers manage to attain that power, even despite their best efforts. and of course, I completely disagree with Richard Brody. I don't know where you're getting. is that the point? That's the point of cinematic realism. But it is a beautiful po it is a beautiful piece that he's written about Blue Heron and Gareth, Blue Heron is a beautiful film.
Gareth (01:33.156)
Ha ha ha.
Mm-hmm.
Ha ha.
Jett Loe (01:46.341)
Let's get right into it.
Gareth (01:50.606)
It's a bit but
Gareth (01:57.249)
It's friend building time. it's you know, if we w if we were a public radio station, you know, twice a year when they do when they do those kind of what do they call them? The the fundraising campaigns? When they they you know they interrupt the shows and say if you if you donate more more money, there'll be fewer interruptions. I feel like, you know, you're you're a you're a you're a master class. You're a master class in front in fr in friend building. Because people might not know, they might not know from what you just said there that
Jett Loe (02:03.324)
Yes.
Jett Loe (02:08.135)
Sure. Give us money. Please.
Jett Loe (02:14.875)
Yes.
Gareth (02:27.19)
As far as I know, Richard Brody is probably your favourite film critic writing today. Yes, I he's great and that first sentence might be mistaken in his amazing piece about Blue Heron
Jett Loe (02:31.214)
he's great.
Jett Loe (02:37.327)
What I'm trying to do, one of my Life Works projects, is to merge being a a kind of a jerk person with an enlightened, kind person simultaneously to achieve some sort of new form. But I digress. Folks, thanks for listening to the film talk. It's the one long conversation on movies and what they mean and how they can change ourselves and change our lives for the better. I'm Jet Low.
Gareth (02:43.415)
Right.
Gareth (02:50.152)
Okay.
Like
Gareth (03:04.354)
I'm Gareth Higgins, The Conversation Never Ends. And we are talking about this beautiful film, Blue Heron. it's written and directed by Sophie Romvari. It's described as semi-autobiographical, and I want to say, going into it, that it deals with some of the most
extraordinarily painful themes that anyone can confront in their in their lives and you know and like we know that there I I mean there are folks who love this show who've experienced the awfulness that occurs in this film. So I'm gonna do
You know, it's a c it this word content advisory is as if people aren't resilient enough to be able to handle content. It's not about that. We're simply being respectful. And there will be spoilers in this episode. This film is about the deep brokenness within a family that centers on a very troubled teenager who does not survive. And that's a major spoiler, but
It's not a plot-driven film, and I find that the distance you may have from your own your own grief, if this has been part of your own experience in life, might determine whether you experience this film as a way of being seen, or it might feel like it's just too close for comfort. That said, it's my favorite film of the year so far, and strangely enough, it has
an un I I'm gonna assume unintentional connection with the Odyssey that we managed to do an episode about last week without really talking about the film at all.
Jett Loe (04:42.311)
Well, Zendai is great in it, isn't she? As the Blue Heron. As the Blue Heron who comes down. Folks, we got a clip here. You know, it th this film is difficult. But then so is great art, right? That's my Richard Brody statement right there. I'm gonna say it emphatically with 100% conviction. All great art is difficult. It's a beautiful film. We got a clip here. This is from the trailer, it gives you a little sense of the mood. Let's listen into some of these people.
Gareth (04:44.342)
Zendaya is great. It shall burn.
Gareth (04:58.446)
Yes.
Jett Loe (05:10.597)
Okay, whenever you're ready.
Gareth (05:11.842)
All right. So Blue Heron's set in the in two two time frames, one in the early nineteen nineties and one a couple of decades later. It's in British Columbia, I I believe on Vancouver Island, a place I would like to live, a place I I'd I'd
Jett Loe (05:29.915)
No kidding.
Gareth (05:30.154)
I I know so I know some people who who live there and they listen to the show as well. And anytime you want to invite me to come and live there, I'm open to that invitation. And what we're dealing with is a family that have just moved from Hungary and they're setting up home, they're trying to establish themselves, make a new life, and they're dealing with, as I've already said, their their eldest child, Jeremy, is just deeply troubled.
What I love about this film is that it's observationally realistic about what it's like for people to move somewhere. There's a there's a little almost a throwaway line where you're wondering, well, if these people are Hungarian, why are they speaking English to each other? And they say it's because they're trying to make this new home. It's an agreement that they've made. They're going speak English in Canada now that they've moved there. It's elliptical, it's it's it eventually gets I suppose we're about 40 minutes in before we flash.
Into the future and the surprise with which that happens, where we see a character we haven't seen before, who's a filmmaker, interviewing what turns out to be real social workers in in Canada, who are reflecting on how the system was inadequate to provide the the services that this family needed in the past and may even still be inadequate today.
And then there's these bits of I hesitate to call them movie magic because this is this is not a this is not a film of I mean it Yeah.
Jett Loe (07:03.739)
You can s you can say movie magic. There is there is there is movie mag magic here. And and when I say movie magic, I'm talking about magic that that utilizes the nature of the form. And the nature of the form is that film is linear, one thing after another. And we've talked about this before, right? You go to a painting, you're there at the salon, eighteen hundreds, there's some huge, giant, you know, 20-foot by 14-foot painting, but you can get a sense of it all at once. You can't do that with a movie because it is
Gareth (07:31.512)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (07:33.722)
one thing after another. And this film takes advantage of that and does things structurally with a a temporal use of narrative that I'm sure is going to be ripped off by Hollywood r relatively soon, much like you do you remember Mike Figus still with us? He did that may he did the documentary Megalopolis. I have not seen Megadoc, but I know I've seen recall reading an interview with Mike Figus back in the day when he was really pissed off that the creators of 24
Gareth (07:48.046)
I do remember Mike Figgus, yes. How about Megalopolis?
Jett Loe (08:01.381)
The big hit TV show, he thought he had ripped him off ripped off his ripped off time code. So I have no doubt the blue heron, someone in someone in LA somewhere is looking at Blue Heron right now. And folks, you if you haven't seen the film, please watch the film because you may not understand what we're talking about. The film is innovative, like a like an art like an experimental art film in terms of its use of temporal structure and intersection of characters. I'm sure it's gonna be ripped off for you know the next Fast and the Furious or something.
Gareth (08:02.062)
Had done time code. Timecode, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gareth (08:26.38)
Well, it's also highly influenced by John Sales and his his method of editing, particularly in in Lone Star. And it's so l go back to this this this movie magic term. It is magical the sense that it t it took my breath away. I mean the the the the first time we see Amy Zimmer, who's playing Sasha as an adult, when we see her in a room with her parents at the age they were when she was, I think, about eight years old.
Jett Loe (08:29.375)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Lone Star. Absolutely.
Gareth (08:55.446)
It doesn't require any CGI to do this, but it's very similar to how to how John Sales edits Lone Star where you have people telling stories about the past and the camera will just pan away and you'll be in the same room but suddenly the decor will have changed and it's it's it's suddenly the late nineteen fifties
Jett Loe (08:58.523)
Yeah.
Gareth (09:15.124)
I think or or the the ear the early sixties. So there's there's a lot of that in there. The reason it reminded me of the Odyssey, and it's it's it's not it's not coincidental that you mentioned Zendaya, because the way Zendaya shows up in the Odyssey playing, either Athena or the projection of Odysseus's guilt, is very much the way that Adult Sasha shows up in in this film, moving back and forth.
Jett Loe (09:39.185)
this there's the same shots. And that's that was actually the one thing I I I kind of wish they hadn't done because it is such a cliche where you have the two shot of the characters, the camera pans away and then pans back and the other person is gone because the Yeah, that was that was the my my least favorite. But it you know, I'm picking knits here.
Gareth (09:49.548)
And he's not there anymore.
I don't know. Well I I mean I don't know. It that felt to me very much like the way memory occurs. And remember that the first the first shot of this film is of Adult Sasha looking through the lens of her phone, looking down over the town where she grew up. And it's also the last shot of the film as as well. So part we we we are in the we're in the midst of a created image from the start. it's a deeply compassionate film.
Jett Loe (10:06.31)
Yes.
Jett Loe (10:19.387)
Yes.
Gareth (10:22.03)
And other than the Odyssey, and I'm not being facetious when I say that, because you mean this th they just happen to be slightly different in scale, Blue Heron and and the Odyssey. They are both partly about how time affects us and whether or not time heals and they're about
regret and asking ourselves what can we do for the sake of others and what's it like to be powerless. It also reminded me of one of my favorite and I think one of your favorite films of last year. Sorry baby. there is there's a there's a generation of psychologically sophisticated filmmakers that yes it would have been fantastic to see Blue Heron in a theater. It was theatrically released it it it didn't get to go to lots of of
places. But it's just great that psychologically sophisticated filmmakers with compassion and integrity are having the opportunity to to make films like this. That's that's what I think Blue Heron. Tell me more about what you think.
Jett Loe (11:26.417)
Well, I feel like we need one of these a week. There's gotta be a a bunch of folks out there making you talking about talking about films that have psychological depth or that have the rigor and the courage to examine, you know, one psychological state. as shot beautifully on airy cameras. Ari cameras. I want one of these a week. And you're right about the Odyssey. Of course, anytime you have a film like this in which a character's not saying anything and they're on a ship,
Gareth (11:34.491)
yeah.
Gareth (11:52.142)
Ha ha.
Jett Loe (11:52.144)
You know, that this no, but I'm not being facetious because the whole point is you're on the ferry, you're on the ship, and there, and then you're cut off, right? And then you have the ocean waves, and so you have a a self what seems to be self-generated, self-created world around you and the waves which are ever changing, which is you could see as a metaphor for yourself. So any time that's why the sea journeys are always something, right? You're always there. Call me Ishmael, you're on the boat. There's a reason why that always works in in film and
Gareth (11:57.219)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (12:19.225)
If you want again, if you wanted to pick nits, you could say, well, these are the most obvious things ab about Blue Heron. But instead of saying obvious, just think of it the Odyssey. These are things that work. These are narratives that work. And I think Christopher Nolan, you know, famously in last couple of days, there's been reporting about him chiding what he calls an amateur film criticism for being pejorative when you deconstruct narrative narrative tropes, right? Just cause you can see it, just cause you get it. they're on a boat.
Gareth (12:42.668)
Yes, just just b yeah, just because you've s you've yeah. If you've you've you've seen Yes. Yeah.
Jett Loe (12:49.115)
Doesn't you know, and this is how that reflects psychological state and isn't that obvious? Doesn't mean it's bad, it works. I think Christopher Nolan is somebody
Gareth (12:52.524)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's kinda like saying I was gonna say it's it's kinda like saying that because bec because Frank Gehry used scaffolding to to to to to to build the the Guggenheim and Bilbao well that's just a tautology. Whether or not the building is an extraordinary building doesn't depend on it being made in a completely imaginative, totally what would the what would the word be, totally unprecedented way.
You know, k Nolan Nolan Nolan's films Nolan's films also use cameras. Like yeah.
Jett Loe (13:22.375)
Yeah and and this
Jett Loe (13:27.057)
Well, how reductive do we want to be? But this but yeah, this this there's old fashioned, you know, the standardized cinematic techniques in Blue Heron, but it does really wonderful things, even very simple things. There's a very hard conversation towards the end, a a major section of the film or a big part of the film, the most important parts of the film. And two people are in crisis, they're they're not getting the help they need, and the camera pans away and we see them continue the conversation, but we're looking at the reflections of them and they're all split up. And it's really simple, folks.
for any, you know, your filmmakers out there, but boy, it it really is effective. And I guess to the point of, you know, Richard Brody, the point of cinematic realism is the inner life. That shot does do that. It splits up it the the the individuals' faces and and their their their heads, their visages, and we can see that how they are broken up inside a shards and that really works. Hey, I got a quick question for you. Because this film, and again spoilers, this is a film in which
Gareth (14:19.702)
Yes.
Jett Loe (14:23.887)
Adult selves interact with with their past selves and in in a way of describing or depicting, I should say, how we remember things. You know, there's another film that did that and had a really, really impressive time jump, and that was 2001. And in this film, there's a scene in which the kids are watching TV and Blue Danube is playing. And I'm wondering, are they watching 2001 on a little screen? Because we don't see I I could be wrong. We see other times what what the characters are watching. Are they watching 2001?
Gareth (14:44.456)
yeah.
Jett Loe (14:53.839)
I mean it's it's it's quite possible.
Gareth (14:55.66)
Well it it is possible one thing I another thing I wanna note is there's a moment in this film I
I don't know if I've ever seen this before. where adult Sasha is having like a Zoom call with someone who's presumably playing the social worker that was connected to her family in the past. Or this, who knows? This may actually be the actual social worker. And from the it
Jett Loe (15:23.323)
Yes.
Jett Loe (15:29.477)
From the director's own life, so we're we have to assume this is autobiography to some extent.
Gareth (15:33.078)
And and and so yeah, was yeah, Sophie Romvari has has said that she c she actually considered playing the role herself but decided to focus on on on writing and and and directing. Is this her? Yeah, yeah.
Jett Loe (15:40.739)
I was wondering that watching the film like, is this the filmmaker? Because it she the character introduces herself as a documentary filmmaker.
Gareth (15:46.914)
Yes. Yeah yeah yeah. So there's this there's this scene where we don't actually see her parents in I guess what we would call the present day in the in the film's universe.
Jett Loe (15:54.536)
Yes. Well, that would cost more for makeup. You'd have to do some old age stipple.
Gareth (15:58.871)
well it's I mean I can imagine that y you'd either have the actors playing or I mean it would be a a huge coup to have her actual parents show up in the film and and they and they don't. And these are people who've who've dealt with tremendous loss, as has she. But what she has instead is she talks to a social worker who says kind and respectful things about her parents.
And I and ends by saying, I hope someday our paths cross. Again, she says things like your you know, your parents tried the best they could, nobody could have done any better, and then something like they're resilient. And I wondered watching that, you know, what's the nature of the relationship that Sophie Rivari has with her parents today? What's their sense of how do they feel about this film being made? I I really don't know. but it felt like this was a love note being sent.
Jett Loe (16:30.567)
Mm.
Gareth (16:54.892)
By the director to her parents who may or may not even watch the film. And that just felt like we were
Talk about seeing people reflected in a mirror. I felt like we were almost intruding upon something intensely private. Clearly it's been consensually shared on the part of the director, and I think it would be a gift for many people who might have gone through similar things. As I say, the distance that you have from such an incident in your life is gonna is gonna shape how you experience something like this film. but it feels like one of those acts of humanist
generosity that the film even exists.
Jett Loe (17:37.831)
I think that's a lovely way of putting it. Ooh, it's like I'm sitting with Richard Brody right here. You know, the
Gareth (17:42.538)
I couldn't I could not grow I could not grow a beard as spectacular as the Brody beard.
Jett Loe (17:48.358)
I don't know what he looks like. I never pay attention to those profile pictures. I don't wanna know I have no idea what he looks like. I d I don't. I I will I d we're we're we gotta heart out and w
Gareth (17:50.445)
You're not are you serious? Are you serious? you've got it look you gotta look him up right now. You gotta look him up right now. He has the best beard in cinema. Can you can you do it can you do it in real time so the listener can can can hear your experience?
Jett Loe (18:02.489)
I I could, but dear listener, here's little little little behind the scene business. We're gonna record another Spielberg show right after right after this for part five. I will take I will I'll take a quick break in between the shows.
Gareth (18:12.99)
What if Richard Brody's listening to the show? What if he's listening to the show when we're you're we're talking about you don't want to look him up because you don't want the mystique to be spoiled? It won't spoil the mystique. He's he's a magnificent looking human. He he's
Jett Loe (18:21.095)
I I want
Okay, I've got a couple where this is a derail. One, I don't where's what why is there a mystique? There's no there's no mystique. He's he's talking about movies he likes and he's a great writer. I don't there's no I don't get any mystique from Richard Brody here.
Gareth (18:35.714)
Hold on, are you s are you suggesting you suggesting that that film criticism is is is not the the the greatest of of the shadow arts? The trickster the trickster arts, the archetype, the mystic the mist the mysticism and the mystery of film criticism?
Jett Loe (18:45.039)
I I never thought of it as an art. I I d I I
Jett Loe (18:53.489)
This the the mysticism in the this sounds like the opening of the nineteen sixties outer limits. Strap yourself in. The the control voice is gonna take you to the magic and mystery of
Gareth (18:59.522)
Don't you wear don't don't you wear a cap a I don't know, I've always wondered why why you wear a cape and a top hat and carry a cane when you're recording the show.
Jett Loe (19:08.849)
Dear listeners, I am so sorry for this derail. I will look up what Richard Borty looks like in between shows. We're about to do the Spielberg show. But I do I just want to talk a little bit about the filmmaking because it's so beautifully shot. I wish I had seen it in the cinema. It does considering when we're watching the film and realize we realize that we are looking through the eyes of a child, and not just the eyes of a child, but the memories of a child. These are these are also memories. And so the way the camera is loose on the tripod, it's almost like we're an observer. We're the neighbor across the street seeing.
Gareth (19:18.979)
Yes.
Yeah.
Jett Loe (19:39.148)
the body of the of the brother. We're peering through windows. We're the child ex excluded, whether intentionally or not, or at least because they're a child not part of the adult world. So you're looking through doors, you're looking through windows. There's that great moment in which the child is handed the camera and becomes a filmmaker out of necessity when the through the traumatic events with her with her brother. So the the cinematography is absolutely fantastic. I know Gareth mentioned they actually used real social workers. You know, in movies, folks, that can kind
unbalance things in the sense that when you use real people, usually they're so good that you kinda it it kind of devalues and makes thin in front of you, turns to tissue, turns to to old old plastic degrading in a in a in a landfill, the current film you're watching. I'm thinking specifically of Up in the air that whatever that movie is with George Clooney. And I say this because it was clearly a film that was completely redone in the edit all over the place. Totally, it's all over the place. But an up in the air, whenever they cut to real people, it gets good.
Gareth (20:27.298)
Hm.
Jett Loe (20:38.223)
And then then we go back to George Clone, which is which is which is unfortunate. But my point is though that can really imbalance in films. But here, structurally it works because it's introduced at a turning point in the film two through two thirds of the way through, and it's given a long scene. So it structurally is is super confident. Again, this is a really super confident, really well made film. The last thing I'll say, I love also the use of maps. Again, it may seem very simple.
Gareth (20:45.986)
Mm.
Gareth (21:04.275)
yeah. Yeah.
Jett Loe (21:05.671)
Yeah, I'm reminded of what is it, what did Robert De Niro say in Ronin, the great John Frankenheimer movie. Map is not the territory, but here it's an exploration of that.
Gareth (21:14.838)
I don't think I don't think he said that first.
Jett Loe (21:19.223)
No. Well that's like well, wait a minute. That's like Nicholas Meyer in Star Trek Two having Khan say, you know, the there's the Klingon saying that revenge is a dish best served cold. And it's, you know, it's a Roman saying and and he's updating it. So I'm I'm gonna get a li if I allow it for Star Trek Two Wrath of Khan, there's a colon. I think you should allow it for and and and for this film, my point is is that how do we understand things? How do we apprehend life? And you know metaphorically the map
Gareth (21:23.384)
Yes. The great Nicholas Meyer.
Gareth (21:29.954)
Best serve cold.
Gareth (21:36.908)
I should allow it for Ronan.
Gareth (21:42.029)
Yes.
Backwards and forwards.
Jett Loe (21:48.572)
The map is there and the older brothers d you know, creating these artwork of maps and it's it it works metaphorically, beautifully done. Any last words here? Any more any more talk about the mystique of New Yorker film critic Richard Brody?
Gareth (21:59.906)
Gareth (22:03.926)
I d you know, would you would you not just for me, because it's a Monday, because it's a Monday, would you just look up Richard Brody while we're while we're on? Yes. He's just he he he's magnificent.
Jett Loe (22:09.869)
Live on the show. Sure. What is is does he have what what is it that is so excited to you exciting to you that I see what he looks like?
Gareth (22:18.956)
I'm amazed you've never s you've never seen a picture of him before.
Jett Loe (22:22.159)
I'm sure on the New Yorker they probably have like a caricature like the Wall Street Journal. I just scroll I don't I don't wanna know what these people look like. I care about their ideas.
Gareth (22:25.303)
I d yeah.
Well he does these great 'cause the New Yorker does this lovely stuff. I mean his his colleague of the New Yorker, Just Justin Chang, they both they both do do do videos like and they do these videos w like in the middle of the year. They're three favorite films of the year gone by. Just just have a look. Are you finding is your
Jett Loe (22:31.887)
Does he do videos?
Jett Loe (22:43.393)
I'm I'm look I I I I get it now. I get it. I I understand. I understand. You know, he's dear listeners, if you don't know Richard
Gareth (22:46.382)
That's an extraordinary looking man. That is a cultivated beard. That's a cultivated beard. He lo he he looks he looks like a character from Tolstoy.
Jett Loe (23:01.767)
Well, he looks like Alan Moore. So and I'm, you know, Alan Moore is, you know, there's a tr I think there's a tradition of guys like this. This is I this I would love this to be my new look. Dear listeners, Richard Brody. You join me right now and look up Richard Brody, New York film critics, looks like. I would love this to be my new look. my hair is going, so I could do the top part. The I don't think my beard could get so
Gareth (23:03.948)
He does look like Alan Moore.
Gareth (23:14.254)
Ha ha ha.
Gareth (23:21.933)
Yes.
Gareth (23:25.676)
How long did it take him to grow that beard? How long did it take him to grow that beard?
Jett Loe (23:31.407)
Well, he was watching a Bellatar film and he was clean shaven. And then by the end of the film, bam. Folks, the film talk god.
Gareth (23:31.434)
Oceans of time. Oceans of time. He was
Gareth (23:40.759)
So here's the thing about Brody. The th the thing about the thing about Brody is I think he's I think he genuine d in all genuineness. Everything I've said about him is genuine. He he is the best exponent working today, I believe, of shattering this notion that a film has to be what used to be called high art to be worth talking about.
Brody's not ashamed to like stuff that happens to be popular, but he has much richer ways of describing why he likes them than a lot of us do. And he also isn't it you you do this as well, Jet. He's not hoodwinked by just because a film is complicated, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily great. So I love reading him just like I love listening to you. How about that? Bringing it in for a nice hu a nice humanist landing. The law of Zeus.
Jett Loe (24:28.517)
I that that well and I and the New York and the New Yorker has a tradition of that. I'm thinking, of course, about Pauline Cale. you know, some you look up a review of Batman from nineteen eighty nine, you god, she's gonna hate it. And she writes this amazing sentence along the lines. Well, she no, she l she writes, you know, has there ever been a more thrilling ride in cinema than when Batman takes Alec Baldwin's wife, Kim Basinger.
Gareth (24:36.685)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (24:43.439)
did she love it?
Gareth (24:50.934)
Wow.
Gareth (24:55.48)
Kim Basinger.
Jett Loe (24:59.217)
You know, to the Batcave. Vicky Vale. And so she she thought it was fantastic. You know, I think I might change the name of this episode to Blue Heron and Richard Brody because we're talking about Richard Brody so much. So, Richard, if you if you are listening, love your work. I'm a prickly person. You know, we can always agree to discreet. Please, you're fighting the good fight, man. Please keep doing it. Folks, don't forget, if you want to support the show, you can go to Patreon at patreon.com slash the film talk. Cause we don't got that sweet New Yorker move. We don't have that conde nast money.
Gareth (24:59.544)
Vicki Vale. Vicky Vicky Vale. Vicki Vale's the name of that character. Yeah. Well, great. Brody took? Well, he's great.
Jett Loe (25:27.809)
go to patreon.com slash the film talk and yet. And we're also on Facebook. At Facebook, well, hold on now. Wait a way to people hear our part five Spielberg show. It's coming up soon, a couple of days. go to Facebook at Facebook.com slash the film talk to chat with us too. I've been Jetlow.
Gareth (25:29.026)
Yet yet yet ever
yes.
Gareth (25:47.564)
I've been Gareth Higgins. We'll keep talking.
Jett Loe (25:50.351)
Next time.
Gareth (25:55.395)
Thanks for