EPISODE 337: The Odyssey
THE ODYSSEY: It’s important that a film at this scale is speaking to this moment that we’re in Dear Listener. In this wide ranging discussion our hosts Higgins and Loe get into why THE ODYSSEY is so thought provoking and important a piece of mainstream entertainment, while along the way enjoining discussions about matters of life and death, one's responsibilities to act, and also completely forget to mention Zendaya's role in the film. Enjoy.
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Jett Loe (00:07.982)
All right, Gareth friends, we're gonna get to the theme music and to the Patreon call to action, all that business, but Gareth, I had an epiphany. You know, that's what I watch shows for. I I
Gareth (00:14.546)
That's what people listen for.
The theme music and the Patreon call to action.
Jett Loe (00:21.73)
That's I I'm just there for people to ask me to subscribe in a sort of strange cold sweat desperation as society crumbles and we move away from reading. Ooh, this kind of ties into the Odyssey. Spoilers from here on out. We're gonna get to the theme music in a second.
Gareth (00:24.904)
Gareth (00:32.328)
We should sing. Will people sing songs at the Film Talk in the future?
Jett Loe (00:39.488)
I know, I do now. Gareth, I had an epiphany watching the Odyssey a second time, and you may not like this epiphany because I know you've seen the Odyssey like like like six six times. You've seen it four times now. Okay. you you probably watched it on the plane, right? In the seat in front of you, as Nolan intended. Do you know, Gareth? I know somebody that watched Sinners like that. And I was like, My dude, what are you doing? It's like that time I watched two two thousand and one on my Zune.
Gareth (00:40.836)
Okay. Yes.
Gareth (00:45.832)
dear, dear. I've seen it four times. I've seen it four times. I've seen it four times. I have, yes. Twice in iMacs, twice in NoMacs.
I'm
Yes.
Gareth (01:06.29)
Hold on.
Jett Loe (01:09.164)
In the dentist office.
Gareth (01:09.308)
Hold on. Hold on, that's the first time you've said my dude. At least in my hearing. It doesn't become you. It doesn't feel like a jet- It doesn't feel like a jet-ism.
Jett Loe (01:20.95)
No, it's not. But when you're watching sinners on the airplane seat in front of you, the the the automatic, autonomic response, like you're getting hit in the knee at the doctor's office, is like, my dude, what what what are you doing? You can't help it. Anyway, I've totally changed my opinion about the Odyssey and you don't know what that is. This is what I call a teaser. Let's get right into it.
Gareth (01:29.697)
Okay Okay
Jett Loe (01:41.292)
Hey there folks, welcome once again to the film talk. You know it's one long conversation on movies and what they mean. I'm Jet Low.
Gareth (01:41.414)
Ahem.
Gareth (01:48.348)
I'm Gareth Higgins, the conversation never ends. Now, dear listener, you may not believe this, you may not have witnessed any evidence for this, but we do actually have a script for our episodes. Jet sends me a little text message probably about eight minutes before we record. This one says TFT337, The Odyssey.
pre-theme banter, think we've just done the pre-theme banter, then the theme, then it says, Jett, welcome once again to the Film Talk, it's one long conversation on movies and what they mean, I'm Jett Lowe, and then it says Gareth XXX, and when I initially read it, when I looked at it, thought, you're sending me kisses, it's lovely.
Jett Loe (02:15.543)
Yes.
Jett Loe (02:25.304)
Yes, well that's a homage to wait a minute, wait a minute.
Jett Loe (02:31.798)
No, that's a homage to the fact that Mia Goth is in the Odyssey and of course we know her from her God. That was Ice Cube, yeah.
Gareth (02:35.4)
I was looking for Vin Diesel or Ice Cube.
Well, you want me to introduce the episode today to your listener. Yes, well, I've said the conversation never ends and truth in advertising. Take us, take us on, take us on deeper. Take us deeper toward the undying West, the unknown West, the smoky West, the smoky West. The true West, yes.
Jett Loe (02:44.268)
Let's get right into it. This is not what people p pay for or even get it for free.
Jett Loe (02:57.706)
Okay, so we're gonna get into the Odyssey, folks. Spoilers, spoilers, from from here on out. One quick thing. I do wanna say we do have an upcoming Spielberg show, you know, folks, in the anticipation of just Steve Steven Spielberg's wonderful disclosure day. We're gonna do a one episode ranking all the Spielbergs. This is now turned into five shows.
Gareth (03:09.224)
You
Jett Loe (03:19.532)
And we still got one more to go. our top two. And you know what? I actually figured out what the top two Spielbergs are for Gareth, and I am stunned, especially the number two. I it's it's I guarantee you nobody in the ranking of all the Spielbergs, everybody's doing a list, right? Now you gotta do the list, it's you gotta have a list. my dudes, you gotta have a list, but I guarantee you nobody has put number two, the number two Spielberg, what Gareth has put in for the number two slot. It's kind of amazing.
Gareth (03:29.966)
I know, I knew you would be. I knew you would be.
Gareth (03:38.812)
Yes.
Jett Loe (03:48.642)
This is what I call a teaser for our final Spielberg show. But let's get right into things. Folks, Gareth, what is the Odyssey for folks who haven't been online?
Gareth (03:58.557)
The Odyssey is an old poem.
long, long time ago, written before we even started recording the film talk. That gives you some sense of how deep into the past it was. It has been translated, transliterated, interpreted and permeated culture, euro-inflected culture for thousands of years. It's about a guy who's gone and done some...
Jett Loe (04:07.619)
Yes.
Gareth (04:26.236)
bad things and as a result of those bad things he's had a hard time finding his way home and it's about his journey home and no spoilers will he get home and how will he feel when he gets there that's the Odyssey
Jett Loe (04:43.15)
Do you know that Armando Sante played Odysseus? Have you seen those clips online? And you know, it's actually like this is pretty good. And this is from the guy that, you know, played the brother of Sebastian Stallone in that that terrible dread film. And Armando Sante has actually got some chops. He played Mike Hammer. I thought he was pretty good in that. All right, listen, we got a clip for the Odyssey. This is mostly just some music. You might hear some Matt Damon grunting.
Gareth (04:45.736)
I, listen, I did, I did. Yes. It's...
Jett Loe (05:09.314)
You gotta see in the theater, folks. This clip is not gonna capture it, but it'll kind of give you a little bit of the vibes. Let's listen in.
Gareth (05:17.798)
So that emergency call just came as a text. Let me just check the text, okay? Please don't turn against the Odyssey. Please don't turn against the Odyssey.
Jett Loe (05:17.87)
Okay.
Jett Loe (05:24.557)
All good, my friend.
Jett Loe (05:28.268)
I'm not no no no I'm not turning against it, but there's I had an epiphany. I did have an epiphany. I did.
Gareth (05:33.074)
Did you? Good, good, good. Okay, so it's actually, he sent me a voice memo, so let me just listen to that.
Gareth (07:05.607)
Ahem.
Gareth (07:15.698)
Okay, sorry, he's calling me. do need to take it out. I'll text you when I can get back. Thanks.
Jett Loe (07:17.592)
Right. Okay. No worries, buddy.
Gareth (11:38.598)
Hey, I'm back.
Gareth (11:42.534)
back hello hello hello hello
Jett Loe (11:52.866)
Hey there, everything okay?
Gareth (11:53.671)
Hey! Yeah, yeah, just with a guest speaker coming in next week who is just booking their flights very, late in the game. So... I tell ya, I tell ya. So...
Jett Loe (12:05.58)
Keeping you on your toes. At a at an epiphany.
Where where were we? Had you you'd said we have a did I say we had a clip and stuff stirring music? Yes. And so we're now you're you're gonna you're gonna we're gonna get into it. Okay. Alright, whenever you're ready. The Odyssey. Christopher Nolan's Masterwork.
Gareth (12:16.552)
yes, yeah. Yes, we're gonna get into it.
Gareth (12:28.893)
Alright.
Jett Loe (12:29.942)
All right. Whenever you're ready.
Gareth (12:32.404)
And so that is the Odyssey. I mean, the first fascinating thing is that this this film is being talked about a lot. And I'm sure, dear listener, you already have an opinion about it. You've probably developed an opinion about the opinions. And then there are opinions about the opinions about the opinions. And that's why we're here to tell you which opinions are correct. Right. That's that's what we're here for. Perhaps.
Jett Loe (12:52.886)
That's why we're here.
Jett Loe (13:01.57)
Well, if we follow Zeus's law, what are what are our requirements in terms of talking about this film?
Gareth (13:01.702)
not hope. Yes. Well, this is This is true. It's remarkable that that a film that is striving for substance is being talked about all over the world. It's also remarkable. Nolan does this every time. Like you can't fault the ambition of the guy and the good. I'm going to say the good faith ambition. He wants to make satisfying works.
of large scale entertainment and art that have something to say. And I did not grow up with the Odyssey, at least not as a primary text. I grew up in Europe. So of course I grew up with the Odyssey. I grew up as a human being in a culture that had been deeply affected by this method, this, this, the arc of this story. Go ahead. Yeah.
Jett Loe (13:32.918)
Yes. Yes.
Jett Loe (13:47.64)
Yeah, yeah.
Jett Loe (13:54.351)
Well, just imagine if the story a bit different, right? Your your entire your whole sense of narrative and how you move through the world might be different. You have such a foundational text, right? Which is it kind of a cheat make in this movie? Because if something has survived for so long, especially if it's done in oral retelling, it's like you know, a stand-up comic doing crowd work. You know, you look at certain stand-ups, right, and they'll kinda laugh because they're they're they're they're prompting the audience to laugh because they've developed muscle memory over hundreds of shows.
Gareth (14:02.481)
Yeah.
Jett Loe (14:20.398)
to engage the audience. And isn't the Odyssey like that? If you keep telling it hundreds of times, you're gonna figure out what works and what doesn't. You know, because this film, I mean, you're absolutely right. Christian Olin wants to satisfy you because right there at the end of the movie, you get the, hey, it's Jason Bourne. He turns into Batman. It's and the crowd goes crazy. He's Yeah, that's what you want. Kubrick wouldn't do that, I don't think. I don't think Kubrick would do that, but we'll get into it. We'll get into it.
Gareth (14:43.784)
I think there's a bit more nuance there than what you're giving it credit for. What's amazing about this telling is that it's not just all the kind of visual flair and the kind of time-hopping narrative thing that exists in pretty much every Nolan film. It's that he reimagines the meaning of the story. And it's very clear.
Jett Loe (14:47.264)
Of course. Yes, of course.
Gareth (15:13.638)
that this film is saying moral injury matters. Moral injury being the damage that occurs to people in the act of perpetrating harm onto others. That whether you call it Zeus's law or a variation on the golden rule, you know, which is to do under others as you'd have them doing unto you, is a foundational rule that human beings should follow. That just because your nation got
Jett Loe (15:25.048)
Yes. Yes.
Gareth (15:43.549)
built doesn't justify how it was built. mean, that's one of the things having grown up in the North of Ireland, we benefit from the fact that some people take seriously just because it happened doesn't mean it should have happened. Just because a map was drawn in the past doesn't mean it should have been drawn that way. No, it doesn't mean we have to undraw it or redraw it now, but we certainly do have to take account of why it happened the way it happened.
and who has inherited which privileges, which resources as a result. So I'm gonna start with the ending or start with the intended meaning of this film, which is that just because you're Jason Bourne doesn't mean that what you did was right. And just because something good like a people came into being as a result of your actions doesn't mean that those actions should have occurred. So I think that's an astonishing thing that...
not just any old blockbuster but but now one of the biggest most financially successful films ever made is trying to get people to think about the consequences of our own actions.
Jett Loe (16:53.688)
So what are you saying that this is actually the best version? It's certainly the the most engaging, beautiful, sumptuous version of a land acknowledgement that you would get. And folks, if you don't know what if out there, if you don't know what that is, for instance, I work for a university, you you go to an event, let's say you're doing a ribbon cutting, something like that. I go to these constantly. There is always a moment right before we cut the ribbon or whatever we're doing.
while we're here, where you acknowledge, the land that we're on, and then they talk about the the the history of the we have a lot of pueblos here. We have pueblos New Mexico and we have continuous communities that have been around here a long time where we acknowledge them here. And they're that's coming under a lot of fire. Obviously there's a there's right wing pushback against land acknowledgments. This is just performative what's real and what's not. But why I think what you're saying is this is a cinematic land acknowledgement to say this is this is us.
And how we should be?
Gareth (17:54.195)
Well, I mean, it's, I guess it's like story acknowledgement. And actually it's funny that the right wing pushback on land acknowledgement is cynical and I don't think has anything to do with actually caring about indigenous people. The...
Jett Loe (18:05.973)
no, no, yeah, no no they don't no come on now.
Gareth (18:07.88)
The recent New York Times op-ed by Reed Walker that was titled, I'm Native American, land acknowledgments are infuriating, is being misused by people as a way of saying we should do it with land acknowledgments. What Reed Walker is saying in that op-ed is that land acknowledgments are the tip of the iceberg, that if they're not accompanied by action, they actually become worse than meaningless. They become excuses for not acting. So this film, I've talked about kind of its primary meaning.
Jett Loe (18:18.03)
Well sure, of course.
Jett Loe (18:26.083)
Yes.
Gareth (18:38.856)
how it does what it does is also extraordinary. This the scale of of the thing. I'm just going to at the risk of list the killing at the risk of at the risk of list the killing. Let's talk about the dudes in this film. And then we'll talk about the woman, the woman striking dude. Number one, Bill Irwin as the Cyclops. Bill Irwin, perhaps the greatest actor.
Jett Loe (18:48.62)
You go, my dude.
Gareth (19:08.136)
working today who most people don't know the name of. That, they haven't, yes, go ahead.
Jett Loe (19:13.582)
Can I just say I have a memory? I have a memory growing up. Now I'm from the Bay Area. Is Bill Irwin from the Bay Area? Because I seem to recall, I could be totally wrong, dear listeners. I seem to recall that I saw him because I'm from San Francisco. I could have sworn I as a kid I I put a couple bucks in the hat for Bill Irwin. Cause you know, there's the Bay Area always has those mimes and street performers and really unusual folks doing things, you know.
Gareth (19:22.674)
Please tell me you saw him juggling on street corners. Please.
Gareth (19:31.963)
You
Yes.
Gareth (19:40.262)
Well, they haven't actually...
Jett Loe (19:40.727)
You know, on on the streets and with a view of the bay and everything, you know. And I'm pretty sure I saw him again, I was a little kid, I don't know, like five or six, and the exact spot where Kirk and Spock are walking in search for the voyage home. And there's an actual technical area where they mention they're going back to the city, but they're already in San Francisco. It's odd, but I'm pretty sure that's where I saw Bill Erlin. I could be wrong. That's a derail, folks. Let's get back to the themes of the Odyssey.
Gareth (19:44.25)
And I don't think they've...
Gareth (20:00.425)
Well, good, I'm glad. It is a slight derail. Bill Irwin, who, you know, I did see Bill Irwin in person in a production of Waiting for Godot. When do you hear the cast that I saw at Studio 54 in the sixth row? Because I got the student discount. I turned up at like five minutes before the show started and it got in really cheap. Waiting for Godot with Bill Irwin, there's...
Jett Loe (20:18.638)
Okay. Aren't there only three people in the in in waiting for Godot? There's four.
Gareth (20:23.272)
That's why it's going to be easy for me to tell you the whole cast. Nobody that you'd be particularly interested in seeing other than Bill Irwin, John Goodman, John Glover and Nathan Lane. That was a good night. That was a good night. And I could see by your silence that you're flabbergasted at the idea. Yes.
Jett Loe (20:25.986)
Does Godot ever show up? Does he show up? He doesn't show up.
Jett Loe (20:45.962)
I love John Glover as much as the next person, even though I'm sure I'm always conflating him with William Atherton.
Gareth (20:51.494)
They do. They are similar looking guys. are similar looking guys. Bill Irwin as the cyclops. Is this episode intended to be as long as the Odyssey? Do we?
Jett Loe (20:53.822)
Mm-hmm. That's a teaser by the way. That's a little teaser for an upcoming show.
Jett Loe (21:04.972)
This may be this may be a you know, our feedback from listeners are they're really into the fact that we're doing so many shows on Spielberg. It's possible that this is part one of seven of our Odyssey shows. I absolutely believe that.
Gareth (21:13.646)
Should Spielberg? Okay, all right. Okay, okay, okay. Hamish Patel. Matt Damon, know, he doesn't actually have to carry the film, but he does a beautiful job. There's many other actors I could name, but my favorite performance by, have two, well, no, I'm not gonna single out favorites. Elliot Page, who is doing something that I'm.
Jett Loe (21:21.326)
Fantastic.
Gareth (21:42.993)
actually tremendously moved by. He is carrying something culturally. He's been scapegoated culturally through transphobia. And the role that he plays in this film is extraordinary. He speaks the first words that are spoken by a character rather than the narrator. the Travis Scott playing the narrator. The first words that Elliot Page speaks in the film are a gift. That's the first words that he speaks.
And it's literally his dying words, because even though he's bringing what he believes is a gift, he's being killed for it. I'll just leave that there. I think it's profoundly moving and it's intentional on Nolan's part. And there's nothing, I mean, there's nothing in a Nolan film that isn't intended. He's not like Clint Eastwood, who does two takes and it's good enough. I mean, Clint's a great filmmaker too, but everything in this film is...
intended and the other actor I want to name is John Leguizamo who is yes what what yes did you ever put John Leguizamo
Jett Loe (22:43.438)
Okay, I gotta stop you there. Okay, okay, okay. It's listen, you and I watch a lot of movies. Hold on. Is it possible that John Luguizamo is one of our greatest actors and has been for decades? And and we never knew it. And I told my wife, who has not seen the Odyssey, I said, John Luguizamo, and she says, I've been trying to tell you that for years. He's amazing. And I'm what you watch the Odyssey, and it's an incredible spectacle, but every time John Liguisamo's on.
Gareth (22:54.152)
And we just never knew it? And we just never knew it?
Gareth (23:04.808)
He's completely amazing.
Yes.
Jett Loe (23:13.132)
He burns up the screen. What?
Gareth (23:14.952)
want a sequel of like of how he stewards the kingdom after Odysseus leaves. So, okay, there's lots of that.
Jett Loe (23:22.776)
But also can he say he does he doesn't get a payoff moment, right? Because you've seen the film four times. What happens at the end to John Lu Guizamo? Does he get one one is a shot of him?
Gareth (23:27.81)
he does. No, he does. He does get a payoff moment. He he he he bolts the door and says, I told you, you're too loud. You're a coward. And he he he bolts the door and turns and he almost winks at the camera, almost winks at the camera. But then Anne Hathaway as Penelope, you know, who, frankly, it's not a subtle line, but it is a deep truth when she says to Telemachus, her son.
Jett Loe (23:35.48)
That's true. You're right, he does.
That's true, you're right.
Gareth (23:56.969)
played by Tom Holland, who's getting the rough ride by people saying it's not a good performance because he seems kind of weak and vulnerable. That's the point. He's playing a weak and vulnerable person who's trying to assert his... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jett Loe (24:07.128)
Well, he's playing a young person. He's young. He's not yet a Yeah, he's not yet a man, and people bring their baggage by the fact that they're treating him as an adult. But it but in the context of the story, he's you could say like he's a teenager. He's not of the age in which he can assume power. And you're right about Anne Hathaway, and you know, spoilers, she without that that one line she has that that makes her character and makes the makes the the film. And the film is very deft that way in having lines
Gareth (24:20.04)
Yeah, and when he
Gareth (24:31.28)
Yeah, she says some... Sorry, go ahead. The film is very deft.
Jett Loe (24:36.578)
The film's very deaf that way in that it sketches out yeah character arcs and huge plot points with just one line lines artfully deployed amongst the spectacle. And this is a film, you've seen it four times. This film really does reward seeing it multiple times because it puts everything into context. The entire film is different once you've already seen it.
Gareth (24:45.51)
Yeah, she says...
Gareth (24:49.68)
absolutely.
Gareth (24:53.926)
Absolutely. And I will see it again. mean, it's it's it's it's it. I'm not going to call it. Well, there's a kind of pleasure in it. There's just fascination and depth. But I think this line we're talking about with something like when Telemachus says, I'm I'm going to deal I'm going to deal with the bad boys who are in the palace. And she she basically says, we'll see how that works out for you. You're you know, in this world, men get to men get to choose what they want to do. And I do what I have to do.
Jett Loe (25:08.588)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jett Loe (25:22.509)
Yes.
Gareth (25:23.88)
Charlie's Theron who handles an incredibly complex role of a person who has it's actually a little bit like Wonder Woman in the extraordinarily brilliant Wonder Woman 84 when she when she realizes that by staying in love
with this fantasy of her dead lover, she is actually failing in her responsibilities to the world. And Calypso, after seven years of feeding mad dame in the lotus leaf, can you get lotus leaf near where you live, by the way? Is it okay?
Jett Loe (25:57.965)
It's legal now in New Mexico. You got a lot of people coming over from Texas, you know, on those border towns they dry. You see the you see the Texas plates and you know they're they're coming here to get the lotus. Yeah.
Gareth (26:06.61)
They're coming to get the Lotus. Realizing after seven years, well, I've kind of been hypnotizing this guy to feel like he's in love with me and we're having a nice time on this beach, but it's not the responsible or ethical thing to do. I'm gonna let him go back. It's hard to play that. She does it beautifully, but Samantha Morton, we can, we can. As long as we talk about Samantha Morton too.
Jett Loe (26:26.19)
Can we just talk about Charlie's Therone first? I didn't wanna I I I because Well we have we have to. I mean Charlie's Therone, you see it again online discourse, which of course is my favorite kind. So nuanced and done in good faith.
Gareth (26:37.352)
Especially whenever the people are using pseudonyms to post.
Jett Loe (26:43.99)
Well, they're not even people anymore. It's just bots, right? They're just scraping everything. You know, they're scraping clips and IMDB trivia and formulating it into whatever c creates engagement. there has been pushback on Charlie's throne because yes, her, you know, the fillers and the the plastic surgery is very visible and it's shot like a like a perfume commercial. But for me, that's that's intentional. I mean, I think that makes that makes sense within the framework of the film that he's there in this drug-induced state, which does look like a perfume commercial.
you know there's comparisons online between like can you tell which one is a campaign that she did for this perfume versus the clips from the Odyssey but for me that worked in other films and everything in this film works. I did have an epiphany which has changed my view of it which we'll we'll get to but everything does work even the fact that Charlie Cyrone seems much more modern but she does make a nice counterpoint to Samantha Morton. And can we just say before you get launch into Samantha Morton, she's a ringer.
You know what I mean? You don't have to worry. You just tell Samantha Morton, here's what here's what I'm thinking. And and it's just just just no question. It's d I don't know what happened behind the scenes with her, because she was the original voice of her, right? She got replaced by Scarlet Johansson. She was like on the set every day of the doing. Don't know. But when Samantha More
Gareth (27:55.003)
yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Strange, strange decision. Like, once Samantha Morton has literally played a role for you to replace her with some, that's very strange.
Jett Loe (28:09.986)
I mean, you it happened with Eric Stoltz. So, you know, these things can can happen. But yeah, though Samantha Morton is so good. Did you feel she was too good? Did it elevate the film? Was it was it was she coming out of a better film? That's an amazing sequence. I didn't feel the way watching the film, but it shows you glimpses of a different type of film, not kind of the body horror we see in that scene. It shows you a little more
I would use the word less chaste, right? Because people are I've again online Discord saying, Well, he's Christopher Nolan is now in the realm of Kubrick and Coppola. I'm like, no, you know, Apocalypse Now or Barry Linden, you actually see things. They're not chaste films. You have this the the the a version of the My Line Massacre in Apocalypse Now, which still haunts me to this day, the shooting on the boat. There's nothing like that in the Odyssey. It's very chaste. He was he's he's doing something that is, I don't want to say less adult, but it's more of that kind of sanded off.
Gareth (28:42.428)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (29:04.462)
Crowd pleasing blockbuster, the kind that you know we used to get in the old biblical epics like the robe and stuff like that.
Gareth (29:10.504)
I don't know, have you seen it twice? You haven't seen it twice? I sort of understand why you're saying chased, but I don't think that the massacre of Troy feels all that chased to me. And I certainly don't think that, I'm not so great with my ancient Greek pronunciations. And mean, who is, how can we know? How do we actually know how they pronounce names?
Jett Loe (29:13.943)
I have.
Jett Loe (29:33.902)
Can you pronounce Robert Pattinson's pronounce his name now, his character name, in the film? He's called
Gareth (29:38.032)
Robert Pattinson.
Antinous
Jett Loe (29:43.512)
Could be.
Gareth (29:45.234)
huh. Sircey. Sircey. Sircey. Samantha Morton. You know, her turning of the Odysseus's men into pigs is a horrifying sequence. And again, similar. I mean, it's almost an inversion of that calypso thing. Samantha Morton, Sircey does a terrible thing to people, but it's clear that terrible things have been done to her. And so there is an empathy called forth and she makes it right.
Jett Loe (29:48.012)
We're gonna s we're gonna circle round to what we're talking about. Let's talk about Samantha Morton and we're gonna yeah.
Gareth (30:14.729)
the end, what I find about her, I don't think she's too good for the movie. My experience of watching her for, I mean, I've been watching her for about, I mean, close to 30 years. I always feel slightly intimidated by her as an audience member. And I think, you know, having read interviews with her and particularly, know, her, got the BAFTA fellowship, I think, last year. Samantha Morton has...
Jett Loe (30:18.946)
No, I'm not that. I'm just wondering did it?
Jett Loe (30:28.044)
Yes. Great cast that's why it's such great casting. That's the same in minority report. If folks haven't seen minority report.
Gareth (30:43.075)
She's been through a she's had rough experiences in life and she seems to refuse to live as a victim. And she's one of those people who's a deadly serious actor because the roles demanded sweet and lowdown minority report. She's extraordinary. She's extraordinary in this film. She doesn't unbalance it.
The film is thunderously serious. Like it has a couple of little jokey moments, nothing more than a couple. It doesn't need them. I know some people are complaining there's more humor in the poem. A film is not a poem. A film, especially a film that's made thousands of years after the poem. The idea of comparing this as if they're the same medium, they're not even the same genre. Like this is a philosophical adventure movie.
Jett Loe (31:33.39)
Well I but there's there's I'm
Gareth (31:37.039)
about the nature of violence and power. I'm not sure that that's what the poem is about.
Jett Loe (31:44.057)
Well, that's the but that's the where you find the the genius in in work, right? That's why I talked about like a comedian doing crowd work. The the bones of the of the piece are so strong you can interpret it in the way that you find most useful and effective for what you're trying to to do at this time, right? And I disagree with you. I think a film can be a poem, but I understand what you what you're saying. But the the it's so str
Gareth (32:07.773)
This film isn't a poem. No, no. I know what you mean and I'm sure I agree with what you mean, they're not, know, Coyne's Gatsey is poetic, sure. And Awhazard Baltazar is poetic. And let's say the French connection isn't poetic. I get what you mean, but they're obviously not the same thing. Something that is written down and that you're reading.
Jett Loe (32:28.568)
French connection. I I find wait wait a minute, wait, wait.
Gareth (32:30.511)
is not the same thing as something that is captured imagistically and projected. They're not the same thing.
Jett Loe (32:36.716)
I know what you're saying, but the sequence in the the long drawn out sequence of what is it, Roy Scheiter following Guy opening up his morning newsstand that goes on forever interminably in the French Connection is kind of poetic. I know what we're saying. We know what we're talking about.
Gareth (32:44.158)
Yes.
Gareth (32:47.817)
You could also call it a symphony and you could also say that Wendell Berry and Mary Oliver, I love the films that they wrote. This becomes semantic in the...
Jett Loe (33:03.596)
Are we jumping back and forth much like the structure of the Odyssey here in this free form conversation that we're having?
Gareth (33:06.885)
in timelines. It's way more freeform than the film. I've seen it four times. I'll see it again. I think it's amazing that a huge industrial scale work like this is provoking this kind of conversation. I don't mean the conversation you and I are having. It's far be it from us to judge. We don't write the reviews for the film talk. You know and the listener knows.
We care very much about how violence and power are portrayed in storytelling. It's amazing to me that this film, that Christopher Nolan has decided, like he tried with Oppenheimer a film I know you felt didn't succeed in its endeavor. He's not co-signing onto the myth of redemptive violence. Even in Batman Begins, when Batman's on the...
monorail train with Ras Al Ghul. And Batman says to this or his arch nemesis, I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you. I remember thinking, come on, why can't you save him? But from, know, from that early in his in his blockbuster career, he's he's doing something different about violence. You don't just die because you're bad. And and in his movies, he's careful with Telemachus toward the end of the.
the film, he doesn't want Telemachus to kill anybody because he'll be gone, gone into exile. And I've been thinking about the fact that Telemachus does kill someone in the end, but he's upstairs in a room out of sight. And it's possible that nobody in the kingdom actually sees him kill that person. And that may contribute to why he's able to, to, be king. there's, there's this road to perdition moment a few minutes before that where Odysseus is saying to him, don't want you to kill anybody because I'm, I am ready to go into exile and I don't want you.
Jett Loe (34:48.204)
Yes.
Jett Loe (34:59.416)
Could could I I haven't seen Road to Perdition. That's the Sam Mendys picture, so no I know nothing about it. No spoil. I feel you've spoiled it. You spoiled it. Okay.
Gareth (35:03.881)
Yes, so I'm not spoiled, but but the well, it's just no, I've just told you the premise. The premise is, is, is can can you? How do we interrupt the cycle of violence generationally? That's the question Road to Perdition is asking. I'm not going to tell you how or if it answers it. So. You should watch it. You should watch it. It's it's it's the is it the last live action film that Paul Newman made? I think it is. You should watch it.
Jett Loe (35:16.344)
Sure. Gotcha.
Does Paul Newman save the day? Don't tell me. Okay, I will.
Jett Loe (35:31.758)
Okay, was he Okay, I well was he a cartoon character? Well I he was in those Cars movies. He was in okay, he was one of the Cars.
Gareth (35:35.473)
He was in a car. He was in a car. was in he actually made of it. was in multiple cars. In the end, yeah.
Jett Loe (35:41.432)
Good for him. I think he's had a great yeah, he's gonna do well.
Gareth (35:45.415)
The Odyssey, there's so much more I could say, but I'm not gonna, cause I wanna hear what you have to say.
Jett Loe (35:48.14)
Okay.
Well, it's a huge blockbuster entertainment. You know, as I've seen it twice. I saw it first in the one of the versions of IMAX, not the full frame, but like it's a one to nine or whatever, and then I saw it more cropped. The IMAX sorry. It's all the steroids I'm taking, it's affecting my voice. Sorry.
Gareth (35:54.558)
Yes.
Gareth (36:08.947)
Alright, you okay?
Jett Loe (36:11.786)
Steroids are killing me. They're gonna have to I probably haven't told you other that I have to do these
Gareth (36:20.186)
You told me about infusions. Yeah. Yeah. sorry about that.
Jett Loe (36:20.94)
I'm gonna be one of those people in the commercials that sits down and gets infusions. Infusions, yeah. Sorry. I'm back to my disguises. I know. Okay.
Gareth (36:33.309)
Though if you keep that in the show, if you keep that in the show we might get a couple of new Patreon supporters.
Jett Loe (36:41.208)
So I saw it in one to nine. And the difference between the two wasn't just the framing. The IMAX version, it was so loud that you would feel the palpitations in your body. You would feel the like a you know, the speakers go moving back and forth. You could feel inside your your you know your organs. So that had a whole different experience. No, the epiphany I had during the second viewing, this goes back to people trying to compare Nolan or comparing him to people like Coppola or Kubrick or whatever. And I'm watching it and it's a b listen, folks, it's beautifully done, incredibly intentional.
Gareth (36:49.181)
Yeah.
Jett Loe (37:11.266)
Huge epic where you'd apply, deploy one line after another in in beautiful ways in order to to make the themes come into focus. It's really well done. But you know what it reminded me of the second viewing is this is when you first see Mia Goth. And I remember thinking when I first saw the first time, like, Mia Goth, what's she doing in here? And then you watch it the second time and you're like, yes, of course. Do you remember in the old days, Gareth, like in the 70s, and maybe they did this up until like 83 or 84?
You would have big blockbuster entertainment. And on the poster, what would you have? You would have the little squares. And the little squares would be you know, who's who's in the film. And you would always have, they would Hollywood would always do a mix, right? You would have the n the young new ingenue, like on Murder in the Orient Express, right? And that's that's what you get with Mia Goth. she's in this for this crowd, the crowd that watches like the indie horror films. and then here's this guy, Robert Pattinson, for to bring in this crowd. And in that way, it's a really old-fashioned.
Entertainment folks. This the the the the filmmaker to compare, if you want to do this, it's not to somebody like Kubrick or Coppola, it's to somebody like George Stevens or William Weiler, who did best years of our lives. The the age of Hollywood when you would have big blockbuster entertainment and where you would also have you know blacklisted writers r putting in their themes, right? So you'd have Ben Hurry, you'd have Gore Vidal do a script polish. And that's to me what this film feels like. This feels like the old-fashioned.
Bloodless, no nudity. That's why I use the word chaste, big blockbuster entertainment films like Ben Hur, The Robe, Spartagus. very different than the adult films of the 70s, like Heaven's Gate, early 80s, or or Apocalypse Now, right? So if this was made in the 70s, you know, you would have Michael York as as Odysseus, and maybe Martin Balsam as the blind slave, and John Gilgood would be in there, and Anthony Perkins would be Antonyis and Antinius, right? Maybe Lauren Bacall. And
So and I'm not saying that's that's a lesser thing, Gareth, but it just I've reframed the film in my mind as a come more of an old-fashioned blockbuster entertainment. The the newest aspect, the newer aspect is the time jumps that Christopher Nolan is famous for. That's hit what he's about stylistically, that is more modern than you would get in the 60s and 70s. But in some ways, this is a very old-fashioned film from an age in which Hollywood would invest in big blockbusters that had could bring in the crowds with the people like Mia Goth what have you, Robert Pattinson.
Jett Loe (39:32.994)
But then also provide ad adult themes. And I so I think it goes in that great pantheon of films like like Ben Hur. Does that make sense?
Gareth (39:40.594)
Yeah. And I, I, I don't know. I see it as more than that. I've been watching Lawrence of Arabia lately because I mean, that's what I do from time to time. And there is a big difference in the big differences. The big differences is, is primarily psychological. There's a level of psychological sophistication in the language here that just isn't there.
Jett Loe (39:48.59)
Mm.
Sure. Well there's a big difference. There's a big difference.
Gareth (40:03.875)
Lawrence of Arabia. Now part of that's to do with what was possible in 1962 and part of that's to do with you know Robert Bolt was a different kind of writer than Christopher Nolan is and it's a thing we've talked about before. I've often wondered about the other Odyssey about 2001 what would have happened if Kubrick had been making it today. Would it have been as subtle given
Jett Loe (40:04.642)
Yes, yeah, agreed.
Gareth (40:26.769)
the levels of psychological sophistication that the average person seems to have now compared to the average person in 1968. Would the film be less interesting if things were more spelled out? You know, some people have laughed at a line where at one point Odysseus says, our age of bronze is passing. Right. OK. And I felt differently about that line each of the four times that I've seen it. The first time I thought it was it was it was one of the kind of growners that that that
I was kind of bored the first time I saw the film, to be honest. It sort of felt relentless. Now I saw it on NoMax, excuse me, the first time I saw it. And you've already mentioned the palpitating difference between seeing it in IMAX and seeing it in kind of a regular screen. I would also imagine this is the case for many theaters. The level of color in the IMAX version
Jett Loe (41:01.581)
Yeah, me too.
Gareth (41:25.511)
because IMAX recalibrates its projection, its projectors and its sound system. Did you know that the IMAX corporation has microphones inside every IMAX theater in the world that automatically recalibrate the sound every single day? You never have problems with projection and sound. Well, whereas your typical multiplex these days doesn't employ projectionists.
Jett Loe (41:45.324)
That's how they increase their margins, right?
Gareth (41:54.374)
So the dull colour, the dull bulb that's often used in multiplexes, I really felt I was watching a different film, certainly a more exciting, a more vibrant film when I saw it in IMAX, because not just because of the scale, but because of the colour. I do wear little concert earplugs when I go to IMAX because the sound is dangerously loud. I I think it's genuinely physically dangerous for some people.
Jett Loe (42:16.76)
When I s when I saw it in the vr the version of IMAX, I saw it my watch. I had an Apple watch on, which I should have like turned off because it they did kept warning me the whole time about the about the noise. This is data. Which actually maybe that's kind of an interactive thing, right? So like the with the the seats. I know somebody saw it in w one of those formats where they moved the seats and it and it blew it blew is is it blew water on
Gareth (42:26.301)
This is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah.
Gareth (42:35.188)
in Bouncy Max.
Gareth (42:40.359)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't say it.
Jett Loe (42:41.814)
Hey, can I just say something with you with you? I I know what you're saying. It's interesting. I do want to say it and on the plus column, if we wanna if we want to be so reductive to put pros and cons and columns and all that that baloney. I mean, talking about being bored, you know one of the great things I l not a not a fan of Oppenheimer. We've already talked about that at length in other shows. But I love Inception. And one of the things I love about Inception.
I always prefer the Christopher Nolans that are kind of more bee and pulpy and maybe not about as much as anything, but the Odyssey, we haven't even talked about Zeus's Law too much. we can get into that. But one of the great things about Inception was is that it takes so long to explain all the rules, and we see different versions of the rules in action, and then it all comes together when the van closed off a bridge. And you could feel when I saw in this theater, you could feel the audience engaging. We're already two-thirds of the way through the film.
Gareth (43:24.958)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (43:30.201)
But now because all the rules have have been explained, it all comes together, what's happening in all the different levels of the dream world. And then from that moment, from the let's say the last 40 minutes, whatever it is, the audience is completely locked in. And the Odyssey is the same way. And because I was at first viewing, I'm kind of bored. I'm like, well, these are good set pieces, but what is all this about? But once the themes come into view, and spoilers, you know, for you know, yes, we are the baddies, once you realize, they're the they're the sea people, we're the people from the sea. Once you realize that, it's like,
and then you reframes everything you've seen and then from that point on the you're you're locked in. So that's it's a very intentional choice and it's it's beautifully done. And then you watch the second time, then it's all there. It almost feels too obvious as characters keep asking, Hey, are you the people from the sea? No, that's not us. Ooh. Those guys? Screw those guys. sorry, we just plundered your house, but we're not the baddies, no.
Gareth (44:12.939)
Hahaha
Gareth (44:17.127)
Yeah
Gareth (44:24.445)
well of the let's get into this thing the look the law of the is
Jett Loe (44:30.008)
Okay, Zeus's Law, which by the way does sound like a seventies or maybe early eighties cop show. Zeus's Law. Like maybe it's the character for Samuel L. Jackson from Die Hard Three. But they couldn't get him, so they got Bernie Casey.
Gareth (44:35.145)
Cologne? Cologne. No, it's a, I was thinking it was more like an ode.
Jett Loe (44:46.007)
Zeus's Law.
Gareth (44:47.527)
Zeus's law, it's a good law. think we agree it's a good law.
Jett Loe (44:53.39)
Treat treat others as you would yourself or the hospital rules of hospitality.
Gareth (44:55.973)
Especially if they're already in your house. Especially if they're already in your house. Now we do need to talk about what he does to the people who are in his house at the end of the film, but I see that as being they're going to kill all the people he loves if he doesn't do something first. you know, that's different. Is that different?
Jett Loe (45:16.812)
not you know when he does when Jason Bourne does turn up when and can I just can I just say what is what is this what is this guy's name? Hold on one second.
Gareth (45:20.22)
You
Gareth (45:30.345)
Odysseus. It's called the Odyssey.
Jett Loe (45:32.408)
Subs.
Jett Loe (45:37.134)
Can I just say Corey Hawkins, he does a lot with what little he only he he's not given anything. He's just generic bad guy, but he does deliver. Yeah, well, he does a lot with what he's given. And then he does have the hey, it's Batman and whoops moment at the end. Just which again, yeah, I'm sorry, you're not gonna see that in a Kubrick film, but
Gareth (45:39.677)
Yes.
Gareth (45:43.483)
No. Well, he's nasty to a dog. He's very nasty to a dog.
Gareth (45:51.37)
Yes, Arrow... Yes, he says Eurodi... I think is what he says. Yeah, Eurodi... All right, so...
Jett Loe (45:59.556)
You're a disease.
Gareth (46:07.569)
Earlier this year, the United States assassinated the Supreme Leader of Iran.
Jett Loe (46:07.918)
Yes, sir.
Gareth (46:18.185)
And it's as if that didn't even happen.
Jett Loe (46:18.435)
Yes.
Gareth (46:26.739)
given the way it's been talked about. Murdered people in their own homes. To start a war. I think we can say that this was an infraction of Zeus's law. And there's a film that's now, it's gonna mean it's likely to be the most financially successful film ever made. It's being seen by tens of, presumably hundreds of millions of people.
And it's talking about what happens to sane people when they reflect on their own harm, on the harm they've caused to other people and what happens to nations when nations are founded through that harm. Now, it doesn't always happen in the kind of literal world. The point is more here. I this is a myth. This is a myth about what happens psychically to people.
It's like the picture of Dorian Gray and he's got this portrait in his attic that's decaying while he stays beautiful to everybody else. I don't want to dwell on particularly it's important that this film exists. I want to talk about what it actually says. And what it says is that
Your grandmother's wisdom is actually just wisdom and that is don't hurt people and don't expand your territory through conquest and don't live in denial for the sins that caused your tribe, your people to exist in the first place. That really matters. I'm not saying it from any kind of aloof position that like because I haven't killed anybody that
Those laws don't apply to me. They do apply to me. I'm just taken with the fact that they are packaged in something of this scale. And I do think that the conversations that are happening about it, some of them are just inane. Some of them are misogynistic. Some of them are racist. Some of them are holier than thou. And some of them really are asking.
Gareth (48:48.061)
what is the right way to be as a leader and as a people.
Jett Loe (48:51.714)
You know, I think it's extraordinary, Gareth, to your point, how this film, think about how long it takes films to get produced, right? And how long they're in development. That this film and last year's Best Picture Winner, One Battle After Another, speaks so much to our moment. And yet these films would have been in in development years before the s the second Trump administration came into power.
Gareth (49:09.491)
Well, this year's best picture, whether it the Oscar or not, this year's best picture, Disclosure Day, which starts with a wrestling match and a boot to the face. And I'm not going to spoil it, and ends with, let's just say it ends with the inversion of a boot to the face.
Jett Loe (49:21.176)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jett Loe (49:27.054)
Well, the so here we have three these three filmmakers with incredible resources, incredible histories, right? Spielberg, Nolan, Paul Thomas Anderson, and all of them felt called to address this moment. Again, with films that would have been in development way before the second Trump administration. And they speak so well, that it's actually astonishing. I think that's a sign of of of of great, great artistry. You talk about this is a myth, and this is
Gareth (49:30.473)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (49:40.489)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (49:44.478)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (49:54.169)
These myth this myth speaks to us because we feels like living in mythical times. I think people feel powerless. Here in the United States, we're watching the just absolute destruction of what we were inculcated with as pillars of the genius of America. So as a ch as you know, I I was born and raised here, lived in the UK for what, 15 or 20 years, but I was raised here and inculcated with here's all the things that make America great. And every one of those things is systematically being.
Dismantled for reasons that people can't even understand. I'll give you an example. The the the collapse in research funds. I was raised about with the genius of American science. There was that hor of course that a huge propaganda push in the 60s, starting in the 50s, 60s with Disney, get man to the moon. And it was men, right? Man to the moon. It was propaganda at the at the time. You can look back at at polls. Only 50% of America thought this was really worth the money. But it as a child, you're inculcated with it. This is part of the genius of America.
I know a research scientist now. She's she's got patents to her name, she's done incredible work for decades, and she's like, why did I even bother? Nobody, nobody cares. Her grants are being taken away. And this is stuff that could cure diseases, folks. And what is the what is the point of this, other than a sort of animus rejection of everything that you say you
Gareth (51:06.077)
Mm-hmm.
Jett Loe (51:19.37)
Love. America's this. You don't want America to be this. You want it to be nothing but naked in in power in a kind of a mythic sense, in a kind of almost a pre-literate sense. Like the United States is one of those tribes or villages that the that Odysseus and his soldiers run into, get in trouble, and then run away from. There were some sort of ancient pre-Zus's law.
Gareth (51:36.776)
No.
Jett Loe (51:44.139)
I'm stronger than you, therefore I will take. And they've said this explicitly, and that's what's happening in the United States. So this movie speaks to to to that point. And that's what does elevate it. I talked about, you know, Anthony Mann and and Ben Hur or whatever, but I think this elevates it beyond that because of it's engaging and it's because it's about those themes, right?
Gareth (51:59.88)
Well, and you know, it's what you're talking about what's happening in the US right now. It's not the only thing that's happening and it's not the only, you know, the nationalistic individual. This weird thing about nationalism is that nationalism, unhealthy nationalism is actually individualism. And in the end, it's not about the group. It's about the ego and you know,
If you're not willing to sign on to the purity codes of the nationalisms, you will fairly soon find yourself outside the tribe. And I use the tribe as advisedly.
My understanding is the English word tribe derives from a French word. It's not actually a word that's primarily associated with Native American culture or didn't originally come from Native American culture. And I apologize for people for whom that word has great meaning. I don't think tribes are bad in and of themselves, think, especially if they declare their sense of identity as being an expanded one of the members of the tribe are ultimately all human beings who have ever lived and never will live.
Jett Loe (53:04.044)
Are you tribal gatekeeping? Is that what you are you tribal gatekeeping here? What is this? Do should we do a land acknowledgement for TFT before we start every episode? We gotta ex we gotta do an acknowledgement of some for.
Gareth (53:07.497)
The. No, we should listen to. TFT is grateful, is grateful to be wherever it is. TFT is grateful to be that anywhere. The beautiful thing about about tribe is that it can evince a sense of what belonging, what interdependent belonging can can look like. The problem is when when.
the people group erects walls around itself or punishes or takes away other people's sense of belonging in order to manifest its own sense. And let's not kid ourselves. This broken vision of identity did not begin with the Trump administration. I think it's embedded in the shadow side of the US as a myth of itself from the start. From the start. Manifest destiny is a problem from the start.
Jett Loe (53:55.641)
Well yeah, they th th those guys those guys shouldn't have punted the the slavery thing. They should have sorted that out.
Gareth (54:04.071)
They shouldn't have committed genocide on the indigenous people and they should not have brought people in chains from Africa and tortured and killed them. And then once they had done that, they shouldn't have ignored the fact that they had done that. And every successive generation should be tuning into what it has inherited as a result. Sorry, every successive generation of people who are heirs to those who perpetrated those harms.
should be tuning in to their complicity and what they've inherited as a result. And I do not say this from an aloof place. I say this as a person who grew up in Belfast at what thankfully has turned out to be the tail end of an 850 year long civil conflict, which was ultimately settled by primarily two groups of people acknowledging
We may still, I may still think my side is right and yours is wrong, but we're not going to harm each other anymore to achieve our political ends. And now we're in this phase of asking ourselves, okay, what needs to be done about the past? The last piece on this is the, you know, the U S is not just this night, the nationalistic separatist myth. The U S is also Maya Angelou and Toni Morrison and Alice Walker and Zora Neale Hurston.
and James Baldwin and Miles Davis and Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement and the No Nukes Movement and the US American version of Quakerism and Black Lives Matter and Habitat for Humanity and people who really do believe in an expansive multicultural myth. Right now, there's just a very, very loud version of the problem being manifested in public.
Thank God a film like this exists to provoke people to think about it. I don't think that ultimately the nationalistic separatist individualistic myth is going to dominate forever. I really don't.
Jett Loe (56:09.55)
depends where you cut it. What kind of timescale are we are we going are we are we or doing here. You know, I think this film speaks, you know, s speaks to this moment and I'll go back and talk about how extraordinary I feel it is that that these folks that you know Anderson and and Spielberg and Nolan felt the need to address what's happening now. I I don't know what's going to to happen.
Gareth (56:12.265)
It might take a while.
Jett Loe (56:37.228)
in the future. All I know is that the a future, a more equitable future is worth fighting for. And I think the Odyssey is an important film, for that reason. Would it have been better with some Ray Harryhausen animation in there? Sure. I would like to have seen I would like to have seen
Gareth (56:53.801)
Did you not feel, I felt that there was a wee homage to Rey in the Cyclops.
Jett Loe (56:57.186)
There was it would have been n yeah, the the Cyclops. Well, when when when they go to fight the the folks in the Excalibur armor, the shiny armor in the forest, that that could have been some some cool stop motion. Also a shout out, by the way, not to in any way not engage with Gareth Hussain, 'cause I agree with everything he's just said. And you know, I like he's got such a wonderful, you know, Eurish brogue. It's it's wonderful. It's almost kind of you know, they have those meditation apps that can like kind of lull you into into sleep. And I sort of not that I'm
Gareth (57:04.05)
yes, yes, it's true.
Gareth (57:17.715)
Yeah.
Gareth (57:21.086)
Yes.
Gareth (57:25.001)
Should we do a TFT meditation app?
Jett Loe (57:26.764)
Yeah, I think maybe we could do that as a side Patreon or something so you could you know, pontificate on whatever whatever you're thinking about that day. You don't have to put too much work into it. Just took
Gareth (57:36.905)
I don't think you mean pontificate in the pejorative.
Jett Loe (57:41.313)
It sounds pejorative, doesn't it? When I say But you know what's not pejorative is the the when the composer goes off and basically we get ligatey, right? Don't we? Isn't there like a ligity like 2001 homage in this picture? Do you know what I do wish we had in the in the Odyssey is Nolan is like, you know, his the the the the the we talk about I mentioned earlier, it's like yeah, it's not the Lawrence of Arabia because the compositions in Lawrence Arabia are made for the huge screen and a little bit like obsession.
Gareth (57:43.035)
It does. It does.
Gareth (57:51.313)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Jett Loe (58:09.72)
You you look at the compositions in this, it's not that they're all center weighted, but you don't really feel he's necessarily taking advantage of the whole frame and moving the camera that someone like David Lean would do or Spielberg would do or Copla would do it. And so I you know, or Yodorowski. Imagine Yodorowski's the Odyssey. Maybe he already probably did it. I don't know, is holy mountain count?
Gareth (58:28.787)
Dear listener, by the way, to our listener in Australia, and I think I'm, I mean, maybe I'm being unnecessarily humble by saying listener singular, but if there are listeners in Australia, there are? Good. First of all, well, g'day. G'day. Are there listeners in Eotearoa in New Zealand? And in fact, I know there are, there are actually.
Jett Loe (58:42.84)
There there are. Yeah, I we get the stats and it has little maps.
Jett Loe (58:51.902)
I I I'm sure that I'm yeah, I think there's listeners and throughout the whole, you know, all the different sea peoples, all the all the islands.
Gareth (58:58.183)
The whole known world? The Fomori? Are there Fomorians who listen?
Jett Loe (59:04.652)
You know, I could look it up, but you know, we're doing the show now. This is it's like a live stream here.
Gareth (59:06.121)
All right. Well, if you're if you're in Australia, if you're in Australia or Eritrea, New Zealand, and if you feel a call in your heart to not just follow the law of Zeus, but to preempt the law of Zeus in November this year, there's an Australian home movie company, I guess. What do they call them? They're not called DVD companies because they release things digitally. A distributor that have put together an absolutely exquisite Alejandro Jodorowsky box set.
Jett Loe (59:27.028)
Like a distributor.
Gareth (59:33.545)
of films in 4k. We do not live in that part of the world and it would be expensive for us to take a long boat to Australia or Eotearoa New Zealand. If you dear listeners in Australia or Eotearoa New Zealand wanted to purchase for me a Yoderoski box set and send it to me, I would review it for you and then I would send it to Jet and Jet could also look at it.
Jett Loe (59:59.457)
So here's the thing. This was a good show and we're really engaging with the most important conversation of our lifetimes. And then somehow it veered to Gareth asking for a DVD box set. And I'm
Gareth (01:00:03.347)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, which is, is that not more important?
Jett Loe (01:00:12.694)
You know, I I'm a f I'm a fan of yours and I'm I consider myself a friend.
Gareth (01:00:16.475)
Well, let me put it this way. me put it this way. Dear listeners in Australia or Erete or New Zealand, if you feel called to buy Jet a copy of this box set, would you do that? Is that better?
Jett Loe (01:00:27.852)
Any final thoughts on Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey before we trail our upcoming Spielberg show?
Gareth (01:00:29.16)
Ha!
Gareth (01:00:33.417)
I don't think we can get final about it. There's so much in here. I'm sure after we've recorded, we'll think about what did we forget.
Look.
Jett Loe (01:00:52.364)
I also liked a little homage to Stalker. When he's strapped up to the sirens, and like what does he what does he discover while he's strapped up? And and I don't spoilers for Stalker, but you go to a place in which your dreams you get what you deepest want. And then it turns out, maybe it's actually something different. So him realizing that he doesn't want to go home and him prolonging the journey because he makes that monumentous decision early on not to follow Agamemnon on amongst no trade routes where he can get food, because he doesn't want to go back home, which is also
Gareth (01:01:03.678)
Yeah.
Gareth (01:01:17.673)
Yes. Agamemnon whose face you never see in the movie. It's just one of a myriad of really brilliant choices. The reason I paused just there was I don't want to, you know, like talking about a movie and talking about war can trivialise war. guess I'm just feeling...
Gareth (01:01:38.9)
This is important. It's not the only way to talk about treat each other as you'd want to be treated. But it is important that something at this scale is saying and asking these things. I imagine also part of the reason I feel this bit of pathos is I truly do think that Disclosure Day does the same thing in a different genre, in a different way. And nobody's talking about Disclosure Day. like I've...
I've chatted with people who've seen it and it doesn't seem to have accomplished the work it was trying to do. And maybe it'll be seen for what it is in the future.
Gareth (01:02:27.123)
They're just films saying really, really like I'm talking with these are matters of life and death. These are matters of life and death.
Jett Loe (01:02:34.018)
Yes, it's so it's it is an extremely important film. It speaks to this moment. It's a call to action to look within yourself and ask yourself what is important? What are we really doing here? What are we gonna put on the line? Understand what's happening, think about who you are, what's important, and then act. And we're not necessarily heading out towards the West.
Gareth (01:02:47.657)
Mm-hmm.
Gareth (01:02:58.653)
by going to Patreon.com. No, but we are going to Patreon.com slash The Film Talk. Is that what you wanted me to say? No, one way you can act, yeah, no, no, don't, don't, like one way you can act is support the International Red Cross. One way you can act is read up on the myth of redemptive violence. You know, one way you can act is tell people to tell better stories.
Jett Loe (01:03:05.772)
Yes. And one way you can act, one way you can act, folks, is go to patreon.com/slash the film talk and support us. We do have both
Jett Loe (01:03:29.676)
I feel I've got some homework to do.
I'm going to
Gareth (01:03:33.597)
Homer work. Homer work. didn't do one of my zingers. I didn't do one of my zingers on the show yet. I got it. Just coming in, coming into land. I know there were listeners who thinking Gareth hasn't said one of his zingers. Is it that serious? Yes. Yes. Yes.
Jett Loe (01:03:38.861)
Wow.
Could I can I just say something?
Jett Loe (01:03:46.625)
Okay, I I love you Gareth. I love you very, very much. We've done three hundred and thirty-seven shows. Not once in the entire history of the show have I ever thought have I ever thought Gareth is gonna do a zinger. I didn't know in your mind that you have zingers.
Gareth (01:03:55.401)
You sing.
Gareth (01:03:59.914)
You're not, you don't talk. I know you listen to the show, I don't think anybody thinks that you are the listener.
Jett Loe (01:04:09.538)
That I'm the only that I'm like the single listener.
Gareth (01:04:11.503)
No, you're like the, what do they call him in Doctor Who, the Master.
Jett Loe (01:04:14.358)
Is this like the cabin of Dr. Caligari? Spoilers for that. He was in an insane an insane asylum the whole time. That that this is you're my therapist. I didn't know you did zingers, but I am gonna do homework. I'm gonna think more seriously, I think, before we record our Spielberg shows and we talk more about disclosure day, about how I can, in my own small limited way, whatever capacities I have, like Buckminster Fuller would say, to do to to
Gareth (01:04:17.403)
Homer work. Homer work.
Homer work.
Gareth (01:04:26.363)
It's good. It's good. Yes.
Jett Loe (01:04:44.374)
enact positive change. Folks, you can go to patreon.com slash the film talk and sign up. We do have bonus episodes. I just give my my little views on obsession the other day and talked about the late great film worker Chuck Russell. we also talk with folks who listen on Facebook at facebook.com slash the film talk. We could do like three or four more shows on this. And I I sort of this has been an interesting show guards because I could feel us we're just kind of going off thinking and musing in ways that we don't normally do.
Gareth (01:05:06.877)
Mm.
Jett Loe (01:05:13.406)
On on the film talk. This is a genuine conversation. I've loved it so much. Folks, thank you so much for listening. I've been Jed Lowe.
Gareth (01:05:21.105)
I've been Gareth Higgins. We have, we hope, been listening to the Muse and we'll keep talking.
Jett Loe (01:05:28.482)
Next time.
Now I gotta go see the Odyssey again.